Gigabet's preflop play from "Play a Hand with the Masters"

[Paul Thomson]

Gigabet wrote in the summary section:
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An example of a time when I would limp with AK would be at a table where the avg stack for the table is 100bb and the avg stack for the field is less than that. If another stack opens with a limp, and there are other limpers behind, quite often, I will choose to limp with AK. The value in raising off the limpers, IMO, is greatly reduced by the fact that you will usually win a small pot, or lose a big one. When I am in that position, I still raise frequently, but my hand selection moves to drawing hands, one or two gapped suited connectors and small pairs.

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There are so many things I don't understand about this post. Here are just a few that I was hoping people could elaborate upon:

1) If there are say 3 limpers ahead of you, why would you raise preflop and not just limp as well? Is it so...

a) By making the pot bigger, you get opponents to committ themselves to a hand that could hit you hard on the flop?

b) You take control of the hand? And if so, then how do you plan on playing a flop where you have a flush or straight draw?

c) The goal is to get a 1 or 2 of the preflop limpers to fold so that you gain in preflop equity?

d) What situation is necessary for you to raise with suited connectors and small pocket pairs...how big must the other limpers chips stacks be?

Thanks for all your advice.

You left out the obvious. You can still frequently pick up the pot preflop.

[Paul Thomson]

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You left out the obvious. You can still frequently pick up the pot preflop.

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How much do you think he's raising preflop?

And how often do you think that 3 other limpers are folding? It's hard for me to imagine that more than 1 limper is folding if Gigabet raises 5-6 times the BB. In fact, if one of the limpers calls, it gives the other limpers more power to call as well. But I kinda agree, I think I did say that he gains pot equity by having some of the original limpers folding. Do you think this is where he gains the most equity by raising?

I think there are a few keys to prefer raising with a hand like 66 or 78s to AKo. First, you never really know where you are with AK. It's a very difficult hand to face heavy action on a flop like A82, which would seem to be draw free. With the other hands, you likely know where you stand. Or, at the very least, you have a better idea of where you stand than your opponent.

I think the second part of this is psychological. In deepstack poker, if your opponent knows that you will raise 3 limpers with: KK and AA 100% of the time, suited connectors 35% of the time and small pairs 25% of the time (just giving random percentages) - you're going to get a lot more action on your KK and AA (needless to say, from worse hands) than you would if your opponents knew that it was KK and AA 100% of the time, and AK 75% of the time, and nothing else.

Third, with drawing hands you want to build the pot so you can win a big pot when you hit, while not losing a lot when you don't. With a hand like AK, you'd just as likely get away on the cheap. It seems counterintuitive saying this, and then suggesting a limp with AK, but I think the point is that AK will be played like a drawing hand in this situation - it needs to be hit hard instead of just brushed.

Of course, I'm not thinking clearly, so I may be completely off target here. That's the way I'm working around it though.

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It's hard for me to imagine that more than 1 limper is folding if Gigabet raises 5-6 times the BB.

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This certainly happens frequently.

[MLG]

Shania.

[Paul Thomson]

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shania

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This means nothing to me. But then again I'm new to this forum. Must say that I appreciated your comments on the Hand with the Masters.

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shania

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This means nothing to me. But then again I'm new to this forum. Must say that I appreciated your comments on the Hand with the Masters.

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http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...part=1&vc=1

[Paul Thomson]

TY.

So Shania = the expected value of all your hands based upon the range of hands you play in any given situation?

[MLG]

right. the idea in this situation is that you need to raise with something other than monsters after limpers or you become much to easy to play against in that spot.