How to get better at this game!! Details inside!!! DON'T DELAY ACT NOW

[woodguy]

Hello All,

My own NLHE tourney game grew by leaps and bounds after I became (and continue to work on) my own NLHE cash game. (when I'm not playing drunk [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

In order to learn the NL cash game better I started lurking the Small Stakes then the Mid-High NL&PL forum here.

I learned, and continue to learn a ton.

I also feel that most posts made here would have the same answer even if it wasn't in the context of a tourney, so most posts are just basic NLHE questions, so the NL & PL forums are very applicable.

Anyhow, I came across a gem of a post from fimbulwinter and he agreed to let me cross post it here.

If you are new or trying to get to the next level, think about what he has stated here, and start working on what you do not excel at.

I know just reading this made me examine my game more and that is always the main road to success.

Here's fimbulwinter's post:

It has to do with when to move up in stakes in NLHE cash games, but the principles are very applicable to tourney's too.

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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What approximate win rate (after a significant # of hands of course) do you think should one should have at NL25 before making the move to NL50?

Thanks a lot.


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first off you should never view it as a quantum leap kinda thing. just take little shots when you feel comfortable, have the money and are good enough. here's a hand waving yardstick:

try 50NL when:

- you're confident in your preflop game
- you understand position
- you have a good idea of their hand by the river
- you have an ok feel when to continuation bet
- you have 500 or more

100NL when:

- you're confident playing draws
- you can spot good semibluff opportunities
- you can lay down AA/KK unimproved
- you're attacking the blinds in easy steal situations
- you have 1200+

200NL when:

- you're ok betting your stack on a draw
- a PFR from you doesnt always mean AA-JJ and AQs+
- you're starting to play one hand while holding another
- you have more than one mode
- you have 3000 or more

400NL when:

- you can ID profitable preflop steals
- you know how to pick between b3b and c/r
- position factors heavily into your play
- you're good at manipulating pot size
- you have 6000+

1K NL when

- your lines don't define your hand
- you're good at playing and winning lots of small pots
- your oop opponent must hold a strong hand to win a pot from you
- you understand the real math of the game at least at a basal level
- you have 20000+

fim


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Here's the link to the post in context.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Lloyd]

Thanks for the post. You mentioned awhile ago that you thought playing cash games had improved your tournament play. So I took that advice and have been playing more cash games recently. So what have you learned that's been helpful.

[nath]

Yeah, this is a great post.
I've actually been wondering how to improve my cash game, since I've been having great results recently at my MTT/SNG level (11-33 MTT, 22-33 SNG) but I've been something of a fish at the cash games (at least on UB).
I kill my home game, so I know it's not that I can't play cash. But there is something I'm not quite getting about the translation to online play.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
So what have you learned that's been helpful

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In short:

-better at keeping pots small (my earlier post today notwithstanding [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])
-making better decisions OOP
-better waiting until the turn or river to steal a pot with pure bluffs.
-better at maximizing my good, but not great hands

Basically, playing with 100+ BB's has allowed me to further develop my game without always having to take into account smaller stacks.

Stack size is still a major part of the equation, but playing deeper allows you to let hands develop more on later streets.

I think this has helped my early tourney game the most, when you are generally deepest. Being the big stack at the table early is gold.

Also, its no fun to just sit around and mine for sets and big pairs, so I have been lagging it up in LP a lot which has given me more experince in bluffing on later streets, when to fire the 2nd or even 3rd barrell, etc, whereas before I may not have gained that experience in a tourney situation due to the unreplenishable stack issues.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
I've actually been wondering how to improve my cash game

[/ QUOTE ]
Just an FYI, this isn't a post about how to improve your cash game. It's how to take the lessons learned from cash games to MTTs.

[MLG]

I'll be the first to say that I don't frequently play cash games, although its really because I just don't enjoy them that much (at least when im not getting drunk with Soss). Thing is, if I'm not careful I do tend to develop some troubling habits in my tourney game when I'm playing more ring games. Basically I tend to play a 50x stack more like a 100x stack, and less like a 20x stack. I don't think thats healthy for your tournament well being.

[Lloyd]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll be the first to say that I don't frequently play cash games, although its really because I just don't enjoy them that much (at least when im not getting drunk with Soss). Thing is, if I'm not careful I do tend to develop some troubling habits in my tourney game when I'm playing more ring games. Basically I tend to play a 50x stack more like a 100x stack, and less like a 20x stack. I don't think thats healthy for your tournament well being.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have found this to be true as well. But I still think playing cash games can improve your tournament games as long as you have a real sense of stack sizes and can change gears when appropriate. Where it has really helped is playing a big stack very aggressively.

[CardSharpCook]

I haven't played NL cash games in forever and a day. I was struck by something in that post, "being able to take down lots of small pots." In my limit experience, this is not true. The fish win most pots and pay the most rake. It is generally accepted that this T/A way is the way to play. Is this not so in NL cash?

CSC

[MLG]

generally in NL ring you pay a time drop in casinos making this a non issue. Also, a wide variety of styles work in NL.

[woodguy]

I understand where you are coming from.

My problem was that I don't think that I had (have) fully developed my NLHE game, and playing cash has allowed me to do that.

Regards,
Woodguy