first 6-max hand: KQs in SB

[baronzeus]

3bet preflop or fold.

If you just plan on calling the flop, check/raise the turn. Villain will hardly ever fold to one bet and he will put that extra bet in even though he is probably drawing to 2 or 3 outs.

Also, you can't count on BB calling your bet here. You're better off getting 2 bets out of villain #1 on the turn.

[@bsolute_luck]

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3bet preflop or fold.

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why do you see it that simple? what's wrong with calling?

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Villain will hardly ever fold to one bet

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that's the point isn't it? who said i wanted him to fold?


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and he will put that extra bet in even though he is probably drawing to 2 or 3 outs.

[/ QUOTE ] do you mean he'll reraise me on the turn or he'll put in the extra bet by just calling? do you think he'll fold if i check/raise him?

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Also, you can't count on BB calling your bet here. You're better off getting 2 bets out of villain #1 on the turn.

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if you were villain and had UI overcards a lower pocket pair (lower than a K), would you still bet this turn with 2 other people in the hand? or would you check this through and simply call the river if bet into?

[@bsolute_luck]

To everyone taking the time to respond to this thread: obviously thank you for your help and thoughts. i just wanted to clarify, I am not trying to be tricky or argumentative. i simply want to improve my game and thinking both for full ring and this new 6-max arena.

i will share the results when i get home from work (~5:00pm EST) and you'll then understand why i ask these questions. okay..work is almost over, so i'll be back in 1/2hr [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Somekid]

I think you need to 3-bet KQs preflop. You would be 3-betting PF for value and to get the hand heads-up.

I think you need to bet the flop. If you had a marginal hand you could take advantage of relative position and c/r but your hand is too strong to isolate the UTG player. I don't like the deception value of check/calling top pair since you can bet the flop for value.

Given the way you played it I think a turn bet is fine.

[baronzeus]

My point is that he'll never fold if you check/raise him on the turn, unless he is on a stone cold bluff, which I doubt given the situation. All of this is read dependent; but him calling your extra big bet on the turn might be +.9BB for you if he is drawing as slim as he probably is.

A note about preflop: The problem with calling here is 1) "cold calling" from the SB gives BB too good of odds to call. One of the biggest advantages you have over your opponents is their lost value preflop, and you need to exploit it. 2) Imagine the flop came J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and you completely whiff (like you will a majority of the time). With BB to act behind behind you, you can usually get away with peeling one getting 7:1 or 8:1 but you must fold the turn UI, which costs you too much in the long run.

To 3bet, you must have a fairly loose raiser. Make sure he raises marginal hands (like I would in that position, QTo, QJo, KJo, etc) that you can have dominated easily, as well as medium pocket pairs, where you have a distinct advantage as long as he doesn't hit his set. 3betting then, does 2 things: 1, it isolates him. Since you miss most flops, you want to get BB out, regardless of how 'fishy' he is. Two, HU you have a lot more fold equity, and while being OOP seems like a disadvantage, it gives you a first chance to bluff at a very raggy flop. Keep in mind that such bluffs only need to work 1 in 7 times for them to be +EV, and even less if you have outs to the best hand.

Basically against a loose raiser, I 3bet here and bet the flop regardless.

[McGahee]

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Basically against a loose raiser, I 3bet here and bet the flop regardless.

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And against a tight raiser from EP.....?

[deception5]

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In this particular case I don't mind the turn bet because BB appears to be donating, and you'd hate to see this get checked thru with the best hand after only 1 bet went in on the flop.


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this was more my reason for it: i didn't want it getting checked through.

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I agree with this. My point was if we bet the flop and get raised and were to just call then I would check call the turn when I improved with a flush draw.

[baronzeus]

Honestly EP doesn't mean as much in 6max games, especially in lower limits where people don't have a good sense of position importance. You're only dominated/far behind by 5 hands here, AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, and if he has any of those you're about to find out when he caps you.

[deception5]

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Make sure he raises marginal hands (like I would in that position, QTo, QJo, KJo, etc) that you can have dominated easily

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I think QJo is about the lowest I'd go there, and it would have to be against very poor players.

[baronzeus]

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Make sure he raises marginal hands (like I would in that position, QTo, QJo, KJo, etc) that you can have dominated easily

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I think QJo is about the lowest I'd go there, and it would have to be against very poor players.

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I raise QTo in EP at most tables, but it's usually against better (tighter) players. I'm the 30/20 type 6max player though, not the 23/16 type.