Collusion or just a dumb fish?

Shakespeare · #1 06-04-2005, 11:59 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

UTG (who_cares_1)/ (t910)
MP (who_cares_2)/ (t1020)
Button (Fold_buddy)/ (t2095)
Hero (t745)
BB (Villain)/ (t3230)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button (Fold_buddy)/ calls t200, Hero completes, BB (Villain)/ checks.

Flop: (t600) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t545 (All-In), Villain calls t545, Fold_buddy folds.

Turn: (t1690) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1690) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1690

Results below:
Hero has 8d Kh (one pair, eights).
Villain has 4d 8c (two pair, eights and fours).
Outcome: Villain wins t1690.

Before the Villain calls he types "i got u fold eagle", eagle being the fold buddy.

The fold only affects me a tiny bit (only way I could have won is if fold buddy went all in on a bluff and villain folded.) This does effect the other two non participants thou, as the villain has helped fold_buddy save his stack from potential damage.

So the question is, should this type of "collusion" be reported, or is it completely legal, or should I just give the dumb fish a break (he probably doesn’t know any better)?

On a side note, should I rather have pushed preflop?

microbet · #2 06-05-2005, 12:07 AM

Totally colluding.

Myst · #3 06-05-2005, 12:07 AM

Doesnt look like collusion to me. Easily could be folding AT type hand here.

This is a push or fold hand. The completion of the blind is horrible.

microbet · #4 06-05-2005, 12:07 AM

You gotta read further down to the chat.

Myst · #5 06-05-2005, 12:11 AM

Yeah, Ive saw the chat and I still dont think its collusion. Ive seen several players do the same thing, because they OBVIOUSLY dont want a call from two overcards.

I personally think the button limper is just a dumb fish, but you are entitled to your opinoins.

Shakespeare · #6 06-05-2005, 12:14 AM

Thanks for confirming the bad play, I should have rather pushed. I should know by now that at this stage calling is normally the worst play.

microbet · #7 06-05-2005, 12:21 AM

I guess. I figured you just didn't see it. I guess they probably aren't really working together or they'd use IM or something. I don't know if it breaks the rules or not, but it doesn't seem right.

Moonsugar · #8 06-05-2005, 12:28 AM

While I am sure collusion occurs, the best default explanation, and the one I would take here is: just dumb fish.

There are better ways to collude than via party chat.

brimstone1 · #9 06-05-2005, 12:34 AM

I don't think this was premeditated collusion, but rather 2 strangers (the chip leaders at the table, by the way) trying to collectively get rid of the short stack at the table without the risk of tripling you (only doubling, so to speak). If it was otherwise, they could've just used an IM.

And since it wasn't premeditated, or so we're assuming, "fold_buddy" didn't necessarily fold because Villan told him so -- unless you have proof of him saying "ok buddy!1!" or something incriminating. He might've folded to your all-in, or just let Villan do his thing and take you out.

So unless you can actually prove that fold_buddy acted because of Villan due to some sort of agreement either made prior to the tournament, or during it, I don't think you have an actual "case," so to speak, against them.

Shakespeare · #10 06-05-2005, 12:46 AM

Agreed, you would have to be really stupid to collude via chat, so I dont think it was premeditated in any way. I am not that upset myself (Other than the stupid play), however would have been "pissed" if I was on of the preflop folders as I would want the 2nd in chips to risk his stack.