All Streets Debatable

#1 12-04-2005, 07:13 AM

Except for preflop.

SB is LPP.
BB is TAG.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

TStoneMBD · #2 12-04-2005, 11:47 AM

i really dont think this BB is donking a naked spade on the flop. i think you can fold to the flop bet. how do you define TAG? is he like 24/14 tag or like 29/19 tag? against a 24/14 type id muck.

after the turn comes if you feel a need to see a showdown i prefer betting here. there will be many times when the villain checks a naked spade on the river so you might as well get value out of his holdings now while i can.

i dont like the river call. the only hands you could possibly be ahead of is the naked Qs or a worse jack. worse jacks probably arent betting and its very weird for him to have donked a naked queen on the flop. i dont think were ahead enough to proceed on the flop so i dont think were ahead enough to call on the river.

Wynton · #3 12-04-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont think this BB is donking a naked spade on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? This kind of move doesn't seem so unusual to me, particularly if the donker has relatively high spade, like Q.

Lmn55d · #4 12-04-2005, 01:09 PM

Our House sent me a video of his play and this is one hand I picked out that I would have played differently.

I think the flop is a fold. BB is gonna have an ace or better jack a lot here. If he has a sapde he has at least 33% equity and probably more since his club will often be a queen or king. Furthermore we are not closing the action and sb who coldcalled in the sb could also have us beat. The pot isn't too big so I think all these things combined makes it a fold.

I also think you should bet the turn. Your flop, turn , and river actions are inconsistent. If you think he is on a draw (which you must because you raised the flop) you should make him pay on the turn and check behind on the river. I think you should fold the river because he isn't bluffing enough and the king could have paired him if he was on a draw.

TStoneMBD · #5 12-04-2005, 01:24 PM

hi fi !

imitation · #6 12-04-2005, 01:37 PM

you really need to post your thoughts so we can understand what you were thinking, as already noted your play seems inconsistent from street to street.

Lmn55d · #7 12-04-2005, 02:25 PM

yea i guess reading your post first and then just quoting it would have saved me some time!

kurosh · #8 12-04-2005, 02:34 PM

I'm going to disagree with the others. I think a flop fold is very bad. There's a lot of garbage he could have. If you're playing, you gotta raise, which is good. I don't know why you checked the turn. I bet the turn and fold to a CR. I check behind on the river.

#9 12-04-2005, 03:05 PM

I fold the flop. Most likely you're drawing to a non-spade jack or nine, Best case you're dodging two overcards and a spade. And he's more likely to have an ace than a spade draw betting into 2 opponents and a pre-flop raiser.

Assuming you raise the flop I think your line is fine. I think betting the turn and folding to a check-raise would have been fine also.

#10 12-04-2005, 03:18 PM

There's no reason why you have to be "consistent" from street to street. What you're trying to do in poker is pick the decision on each street that maximizes your EV. These are correlated, but different, ideas.

I don't think Our House was anywhere near 100% sure he had the best hand at the time he raised. In fact, I'll wager that he was less than 50% sure. But there was enough of a chance, compared to the pot size, for him to represent the best hand and raise. On the turn it's now heads up and checked to him. There are several great reasons to check behind as opposed to betting given that he's probably up against a better hand.