T9s on button facing three limpers and a raiser

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, this is a call when you can expect a 5 or 6 way pot and you're on the button with the second best drawing hand in hold'em. If you can't find it in you to ever throw a way top pair, then maybe you shouldnt be playing this hand here, but given the fact that you're really wanting to make a hand like trips, a straight, or a flush or two pair, playing the hand for these criteria makes the situation very different. I think that in a real tough game you wouldnt want to play this hand here, but then again, how often are there three limpers before the CO raises in really tough games? I'd call the bet anticipating a large multiway pot and hope the flop comes 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] blank.

This hand can be argued either way, but in the end it will largely depend on how well you play the flop and what kind of game it is.


Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

of course it can be argued either way...only 1 play is correct though. and imo (and a few other significant winners ive asked) that correct play is a fold.

you're paying too much to get in here with a possibly dominated hand acting directly after the raiser.

Barron

Who says the raiser can't be raising with AQo here?

My definition of "dominated" is that of sharing the same card and being behind the second. The only way 9-10s is dominated is with an overpair. Now, clearly if the original raiser always has an overpair, it's a different situation. But for those times where your cards are live (or at least one of them) I think this hand can be played for several reasons, none of which are worth arguing because this is such a game situation dependent decision that it doesnt matter in this context.

Loose game, with a bad raiser, it's a clear call.

Tight game with good players and a stong raiser, muck it.

Tex

I agree with what barron said about the raise. Why would you possibly want to drive out hands and money when you have the best position and the second best drawing hand in hold'em? This is the spot you want with this hand, (the button) and this is the kind of pot you want for this hand (multi-way) the only drawback is your position in regards to the original raiser, and the fact that the pot was raised PF. But even with the PF raise, you're going to be getting excellent odds on the flop.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Who says the raiser can't be raising with AQo here?

My definition of "dominated" is that of sharing the same card and being behind the second. The only way 9-10s is dominated is with an overpair. Now, clearly if the original raiser always has an overpair, it's a different situation. But for those times where your cards are live (or at least one of them) I think this hand can be played for several reasons, none of which are worth arguing because this is such a game situation dependent decision that it doesnt matter in this context.

Loose game, with a bad raiser, it's a clear call.

Tight game with good players and a stong raiser, muck it.

Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, wow. i thought youd come a little farther since being banned. im gunna stop here since i got class but if i feel generous i'll explain the reasoning later unless someone else wants to.

and its not as player dependent as you think.

Barron

was that supposed to read "i have to go to class" or " i'm not going to explain because i have too much class"?

it read like the latter to me anyways.

I dont understand what you meant by coming farther since being banned. Que paso senor Dee?

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]

you're paying too much to get in here with a possibly dominated hand acting directly after the raiser.

Barron

[/ QUOTE ]



With you rementioning my point of relative position, I think it has to be given more weight than I originally said about how while fold is better than raise, both are close to as bad. So I'll just restate as:

call > fold > raise

And when comparing A to B and B to C, it's closer perhaps between A and B than betwixt B and C.

Even with poor relative position, given the potential 7BB pot 7-way for a mere 1BB, I like 910s here for the BB, especially if you can correctly play the various situations that will come post-flop.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

You know, seriously, I really like reading your posts. I never thought of it like that before, as you just put it.

Call>fold>raise

Tex

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I could be wrong - several responses seems to point to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the problem is your preflop equity can be a little more than your fair share or a lot less than your fair share. So now you 3-bet, only to find either the blinds or the preflop raiser capping. So you are paying 4-bets to see the flop, when your equity is the least.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Suppose you have Td9d on the button. Three people limp and the cutoff raises. What do you do?"

Never fold.

In no particular order and with no mutual exclusivity ...

I'd reraise if the blinds are tight but not so tight that they don't need an extra reason to fold.

I'd reraise if the cutoff is a button thief.

I'd reraise if these are check-to-the-reraiser kind of folks.

I'd reraise because reraising is fun.

I'd call if the big blind is calling no matter what.

I'd call if the cutoff is definitely not being spunky or getting out of line.

I'd call if everyone in the pot so far is playing well at the time.

I'd call because calling can be fun too.


Tommy

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I could be wrong - several responses seems to point to that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of the problem is your preflop equity can be a little more than your fair share or a lot less than your fair share. So now you 3-bet, only to find either the blinds or the preflop raiser capping. So you are paying 4-bets to see the flop, when your equity is the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. Thanks!