KK on this turn

QTip · #1 08-19-2005, 01:24 PM

Both villains are semei-loose and semi-aggressive

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero ?

ricdaman · #2 08-19-2005, 01:37 PM

You need to bet the turn to see where you are at.

Once you bet, if they simply cold-call, then you are probably still ahead. If MP1 raises, then I would fold. He probably has you beat. If MP2 raises, then I might call depending upon what hand you put him on. His raise pre-flop suggests a PP smaller than yours or two overcards. The only thing he might have is two suited (spades) overcards, where the turn gave him the flush, so again, it depends upon your knoweldge of MP2 as to what he might raise with.

The worst thing to do here is check. The last thing you want to do is give your opponents a chance a free miracle card.

DMBFan23 · #3 08-19-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You need to bet the turn to see where you are at.

Once you bet, if they simply cold-call, then you are probably still ahead. If MP1 raises, then I would fold. He probably has you beat. If MP2 raises, then I might call depending upon what hand you put him on. His raise pre-flop suggests a PP smaller than yours or two overcards. The only thing he might have is two suited (spades) overcards, where the turn gave him the flush, so again, it depends upon your knoweldge of MP2 as to what he might raise with.

The worst thing to do here is check. The last thing you want to do is give your opponents a chance a free miracle card.

[/ QUOTE ]

you know any spade gives you the second nuts right?

callmedonnie · #4 08-19-2005, 01:39 PM

I would bet. If raised, I think I have to call and see if the spade drops. king high is pretty good in my book.

Brunger · #5 08-19-2005, 01:40 PM

Hmm I think that I would bet because I have no reason to assume I am behind yet and the board is super scary so you would think that betting would be bettor if someone had a str8 or flush and even if check raised you still have outs. Plus you have to give them a chance to draw to the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

LesWormMurphy · #6 08-19-2005, 01:41 PM

You are almost certainly beat here. Your only GUARANTEED out is the Ace of spades, otherwise, if any other spade falls, anybody holding the Ace(spades)-rag has you beat.

Also, because your playing with many opponents, your drawing hard against anybody with a 4 or 9.

I think this a check/fold. Though you need to protect your hand, it's going to be hard to protect it when nobody's bet yet, when the turn hurt you, when the pot is only moderately big, and because you can still get raised by the people still left in the pot.

Check, fold to a bet.

sfer · #7 08-19-2005, 01:41 PM

Pot is big, bet.

SnglMaltScotch · #8 08-19-2005, 01:42 PM

I would continue to bet on the turn and call a c/r.

I have trouble putting the button/SB on a 9 or a 4 since they called a 3bet pre-flop. MP1 worries me a bit

I would think that a lot of the time a flush would bet fearing the scare card would slow you down.

You have good outs to a K-high flush on the river.

I would have expected a raise from trips on the flop.

The pot is pretty big so I can't really fold to a c/r with good outs.

I would put a note on MP2 to isolate him pretty frequently since he seems to fold pretty easily after the 3 bet. Folds for one bet closing the action in a huge pot getting 16-1.

Whatcha you think.

sfer · #9 08-19-2005, 01:43 PM

Before pooping your pants because the board is scary at least take the time to wipe and notice that hero is last to act.

DawnToDusk · #10 08-19-2005, 01:44 PM

Tough hand. You say both villians are semi-loose and semi-aggressive, but it seems they are playing this hand pretty passively. It seems to me that they are behind and am still waiting for their card to complete their hand or they are waiting to trap you with a check raise.

You have position so why don't you check here. I mean I hate to give a free card in this position, but if they are still drawing, there is no way to get them to fold for one more BB in a 10BB pot. If the river is a safe card and they check around to you, then you can value bet it knowing your probably ahead.

I think a lot of people are gonna say bet in this position but whats it gonna do? If you are beaten you will get check raised here. You will then have a draw to the second nuts, but you could still be behind with someone to the nuts. It seems silly to me to find out "where you are at" on such coordinated boards, especially when you know your opponents are loose.