Catholic v. Christian

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Most Catholics also think you get to heaven by works, and not Jesus.

Not entirely true. Catholicism says one achieves salvation through faith in God *and* good works. To me (and again, although I grew up in the RC tradition, I am not a believer), Salvation by Faith Alone sounds like a cheap cop out.

Ignoring the fact that I find it offensive to think that any loving God would *require* worship as a condition of salvation, why are deeds irrelevant? Sounds to me like most Christians think that if they show devotion (and be sincere about it), they need to do nothing else to be worthy. What ever happened to the concept that actions speak louder than words?


going through a preist for forgiveness and not directly to God

The similarity if the direct connection with God to Islam is not lost on me.

Catholocism in general seems focused on cerimony, and not scripture IMO.

Catholicism is much more ritual-oriented, but scripture is hardly ignored.

I guess my general antipathy to religion stems from the judgmental nature of practitioners. The "I'm right. you're wrong" mentality. As if salvation (if there were such a thing) would be dependent on accidents of birth and mindless minutiae.

Long before Abraham, Lao Tzu wrote "The Way that can be named is not the true Way." Later, The Buddha said "There are many paths to the top of the mountain."

Spiritually, not only have we not improved on these bits of wisdom, but we've gone way downhill.

[ajmargarine]

It all starts with being born again. Catholics and many Christian denominations differ from true Christians in how this is accomplished. Catholics believe priest-baptized infants are born again. This is false. Any religion that baptizes infants and declares them born again is false.

You need to be born of God to be a child of God and a Christian. There are many who try to follow certain philosophies of Christ. There are few who are His kinsmen.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
It all starts with being born again. Catholics and many Christian denominations differ from true Christians in how this is accomplished. Catholics believe priest-baptized infants are born again. This is false. Any religion that baptizes infants and declares them born again is false.

You need to be born of God to be a child of God and a Christian. There are many who try to follow certain philosophies of Christ. There are few who are His kinsmen.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I read mindless, evil, hateful crap like this, I start thinking that human society will only move out of our infancy when all religion is purged forever from this planet.

Then I remind myself that as a libertarian I believe that even idiots like this have the right to believe their silly little fairy tales.

Excellent point on infancy.

Some of you guys have been scared into your beliefs.

Have you ever asked yourself the question, "What would I believe in if I was born in Japan or India?"

[hmkpoker]

That's what got me to drop Christianity [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Not only those born in a place where christianity is preached can hear from God. Only those who seek truly find, not those who sit in church services.
It's a pity an issue such as your place of birth would make you lose faith in God, I think it's a proverb that says something like, if you fall apart during crisis there was not much of you to begin with.

[Lestat]

So what is someone born in the Middle East into an Islamic family supposed to do? If it were you, do you HONESTLY think you would not be a Muslim right now?

[malorum]

[ QUOTE ]
When I read mindless, evil, hateful crap like this, I start thinking that human society will only move out of our infancy when all religion is purged forever from this planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been some notable attempts to implement the suggested purge.

- Pol Pot : banned religion (Kampuchean constitution chapter fifteen article twenty)

- USSR : the state imposed severe restrictions on religious activity, banned many churches, and persecuted religious leaders.

The results speak for themselves.

Wether you are an atheist or a theist you may find the argument against religion in society somewhat more complex than it at first appears.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You forgot China [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The results speak for themselves.

They do, and I did add the libertarian part afterward. I would never support such measures, but when I get angry, the evil part of me comes out. Wu v. Wei and all that. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It all starts with being born again. Catholics and many Christian denominations differ from true Christians in how this is accomplished. Catholics believe priest-baptized infants are born again. This is false. Any religion that baptizes infants and declares them born again is false.

You need to be born of God to be a child of God and a Christian. There are many who try to follow certain philosophies of Christ. There are few who are His kinsmen.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I read mindless, evil, hateful crap like this, I start thinking that human society will only move out of our infancy when all religion is purged forever from this planet.

Then I remind myself that as a libertarian I believe that even idiots like this have the right to believe their silly little fairy tales.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought your question was why some Christians think of Catholics as non-Christians? You may get some fine-point doctrinal answers that avoid the central issue, which is "Who is born again", but you won't get a better or more truthful answer than the one I gave you. Being born again is the starting point of a true Christian life. How that is "mindless, evil, hateful crap" I have no idea.

I agree with you about the futility of religion. It substitutes itself for relationship with God and does nothing but hold men back.