a ruling from last night (sticky)

[sandbagger223]

This got a little longer than intended, sorry for that

NL Hold Em hand from Ceasars (Atlantic City) last night.

I raise PF and get HU with the BB. BB checks the flop, I bet (bluff) $40 and BB check raises all-in for about $100.

So far so good. Now, my cards happen to be up against the cusion of the table. I don't know why, I NEVER have them there. I think it may be because I'm in the 6 seat and the players on either side of me seem especially "nosy". My chips are to the left of my cards, about 3 inches from the cusion.

In any event, after she check raises for $60 more I reach for the chips on top of my 20 stacks. It was 4 whites and 4 reds. I had been shuffling those particular 8 chips for a while, as I hadn't played a hand in a few orbits. <font color="red"> </font> I brought them across my cards with my right hand, and began shuffling them. It was probably a centimeter (maybe two?) in front of my cards. It was nowhere near looking like a call in any way. My hand never came off the chips, and I was looking straight down as I recall.

Dealer, (who seemed to be just waiting for me to do this [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]) immediately announces it as a call, and that I owe $60.

DEALER: That's a call
ME: Oh c'mon man, are you serious?
DEALER: The chips were infront of your cards
Me: &lt;sigh&gt; Can I have the floor please?

At this point, I'm thinking I have 50:50 chance of saving this $60. A reasonable floorman might determine this was not an angleshot of any kind. Again, I did not go FORWARD with my chips, just the same place I ALWAYS shuffle my chips, and anyone would for that matter. In addition, (I don't know if this matters) there was no action left behind me, as she was all-in and we were HU (does this even matter?)

I keep pretty quiet as the dealer explains my "angleshot" to the floorwoman. She looks at me, and I re-enact the sequence of events.

FLOORWOMAN: That's not a call, I don't believe that was binding action.
ME: Thank you.
FLOORWOMAN: You're welcome.

I muck my hand.

The dealer himself begins to argue with the floor!

DEALER: Oh that's not right! Oh that's terrible! Everyone at the table agrees with me. Blah Blah Blah.
ME: Can we play the next hand please?

Now ANOTHER PLAYER (AP) gets involved, and here's where it gets interesting...

AP: Is there anyone here above you?
FLOOR: What do you mean?
AP: Who is your boss?
FLOORWOMAN: Hang on.

Another floorman comes over. We go through the same process with him. Original floorwoman is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

NEW FLOORMAN: Were the chips in front of the cards?
ME: I don't know, it was close.
DEALER: They were definitely in front of his cards
OTHER PLAYER: He has to call!
BB: He has to call!
DEALER: He has to call!
NEW FLOORMAN: You have to call the bet sir.
ME: My hand is in the muck, there is no way I'm calling this now.
NEW FLOORMAN: Why did you muck?
ME: I got a ruling, it was my turn to act, I chose not to call the $60, I mucked.

Get this...

NEW FLOORMAN: What did you have? ( [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img])
ME: I don't remember

Now he has a little "confrence" with yet another floorman. He comes back after about 10 seconds and says....

"Either call the $60 or you can rack up and leave the game"

As I'm racking my chips I hear him say under his breath "He'll never be allowed back here, don't worry". BB tells the floor she's gonna call the gaming commission.


Was all this warranted?

[dopp16]

i tell the floor man to go blow himself, rack up and moon him on the way out

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer himself begins to argue with the floor!

DEALER: Oh that's not right! Oh that's terrible! Everyone at the table agrees with me. Blah Blah Blah

[/ QUOTE ]

This dealer needs a big shot of Al Capone Jr's kick-in-the-nuts.

And the 2nd floor who came over should have abided by the first floor's decision. You don't just come in and change a ruling on a judgement call. Otherwise you'd end up with a neverending stream of complaints and players constantly requesting another floor to come over and make a ruling, hoping that THIS time the floor will rule in their favor.

[canis582]

Call $60 bucks with no cards or be kicked out? Write a short letter to the gaming commission and send a copy to the poker room. I'll ghost write it for you if you would like.

[spoohunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Call $60 bucks with no cards or be kicked out? Write a short letter to the gaming commission and send a copy to the poker room. I'll ghost write it for you if you would like.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also yell "this [expetive deleted] sucks" as I leave and tell everyone you know who plays there about it.

You did stress to the floor man that another floor person already ruled right?

[autobet]

Usually calling involves moving your chips forward...not moving your cards behind them.

So many reasons to play on the Internet...

Whenever the second floor asked me what cards I had, I would have told them whatever the two cards were that would make the best possible hand at the time.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Dude, my foot would be SORE from all the kicking people in the friggin' nuts I would have to do after this one!

First off, let's start here...

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer himself begins to argue with the floor!


[/ QUOTE ]

All was fine up until this point! OOF! Kick!

Instant write up as far as I am concerned. Hell, you can burn down the cash podium and I won't write you up for it, but arguing with the floor is grounds for a good nut kicking, and some rather "unpleasant" paperwork to boot!

[ QUOTE ]
Now ANOTHER PLAYER (AP) gets involved

[/ QUOTE ]

Grounds for an instantaneous and robust nut kicking!

[ QUOTE ]
NEW FLOORMAN: Why did you muck?
ME: I got a ruling, it was my turn to act, I chose not to call the $60, I mucked.

Get this...

NEW FLOORMAN: What did you have?

[/ QUOTE ]

BLAM!!! KICK!!!

[ QUOTE ]
Now he has a little "confrence" with yet another floorman

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG batman! So I'm kicking 'em and I'm kicking 'em and I'm kicking 'em!!! The floor's decision is FINAL!!!!! F-I-N-A-L!!! Right or wrong, once it's decided, that's IT!!! KICK!!

[ QUOTE ]
"Either call the $60 or you can rack up and leave the game"


[/ QUOTE ]

Now that you've gotten a decision, and your hand is mucked, this does seem rather ludicrous!

Holy cow batman, my foot is sore.

I hope you learned one important lesson here - the "betting line" when there is no official betting line is the imaginary line in front of your cards. Although your nuts wouldn't be nearly as sore as some other people's in this situation, I hope you'll at least remember that in the future.

al

[canis582]

[ QUOTE ]
Whenever the second floor asked me what cards I had, I would have told them whatever the two cards were that would make the best possible hand at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have said "why? how could that possibly matter?".

[TiK]

[ QUOTE ]

Grounds for an instantaneous and robust nut kicking!



[/ QUOTE ]

Robust...I love it.

The original floor ruling is final. The dealer definitely deserves a kick in the nuts for arguing with the floor, the second floorperson deserves a kick in the nuts for reversing the original floor's decision. So basically, what I'm trying to say is, what Al Capone said...