234x hands

[sy_or_bust]

I was hardly being abusive. The 234x/235x category is indeed a trouble category, but a solidly profitable one. Similar to KJ/QJ in limit hold 'em. If you pick the right spots, and play well postflop, you have a +EV situation. These hands are not very difficult to play well if you look for your ace+low draw or scooping chances in a big pot. OP described a +EV situation. You dismissed it and posted a PLO8 hand played by an idiot, as you often do. I'm not sure that's helpful.

[Cooker]

Yes, but in a low limit game you often profit even when quartered since no one can lay down a hand. Many players at this game will draw to and call down with almost any low. I think 234x will be profitable at the low limits. I haven't played at high limits, so I cannot comment on how it plays against tighter opponents.

[junkmail3]

[ QUOTE ]
No idea. I would suggest never playing 234x unless you like trouble.

http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...mp;hand=127058

Hard to fold those big draws huh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand where the trouble is in this hand?

[Ribbo]

You get the perfect flop for your hand, 235, which is very hard to get AND you're still 55/45 underdog!
So you call preflop, you probably will flop utterly nothing and have to fold and even when you hit the flop bigtime like this, you're still not even in good shape! Just fold it preflop so you don't get yourself into trouble.

[Buzz]

Cat - Yes. But your question indicates to me that you may not exactly be looking at things from the best perspective. It's true that 234X hands are primarily low hands, but they also have some high potential and scoop potential.

All the possibilities are not covered below, but this table of nine-handed non-folding simulations for various 234X hands might give you an idea as to their relative worth. A total of 1111 would be average.

hand.....high.....low.....scoop.....total
A234d.....198.....1810.....779.....2787
A234s.....173.....1832.....676.....2681
A234s”’....46.....1889.....626.....2661
A234s””...150.....1906.....531.....2587
A234s-....124.....1889.....420.....2433
A234s-”’..115.....1882.....420.....2417
A234n.....127.....1918.....351.....2396
2234n.....187.....1142.....330.....1659
2234d.....198.....1121.....488.....1807
2334d.....198.....1140.....467.....1802
2334n.....158.....1129.....351.....1638
2344d.....215.....1091.....471.....1777
2344n.....171.....1095.....356.....1622
2345d.....208.....1138.....446.....1792
2345s.....208.....1159.....400.....1767
2345s””...189.....1137.....403.....1729
2345n.....185.....1145.....340.....1670
2346d.....246.....1010.....407.....1663
2346s.....209.....1089.....336.....1634
2346s””...227.....1079.....296.....1602
2346n.....189.....1044.....265.....1498
2347n.....174.....1006.....246.....1426
2348s.....175.....988.....345.....1508
2348n.....155.....974.....222.....1351
2349s.....156.....1040.....337.....1532
2349n.....124.....1038.....283.....1445
234Ts.....168.....1045.....371.....1584
234Tn.....132.....1054.....259.....1445
234Js.....178.....1037.....419.....1634
234Jn.....123.....1061.....291.....1475
234Qs.....197.....1031.....450.....1678
234Qn.....131.....1057.....335.....1523
234Kd.....254.....978.....538.....1770
234Ks.....232.....1010.....470.....1712
234Ks”’...211.....1026.....450.....1687
234Ks””...174.....1015.....419.....1608
234Ks-....144.....1041.....352.....1537
234Kn.....140.....1052.....321.....1513
d means double suited
s means two cards in same suit with the highest card in the hand suited to the lowest.
s- means two cards in same suit with the 2nd highest card in the hand suited to the lowest.
s= means two cards in same suit with the 3rd highest card in the hand suited to the lowest.
s”” means all four cards are in the same suit
s”’ means three cards are in the same suit, the highest and the two lowest.
s-”’ means the lowest three cards are in the same suit.
n means rainbow, non suited, or off-suit.

The worst of the lot seems to be 2348n. I’d want to see the flop with that one, and by inference, with all the others as well.

Then you still have to play well after the flop.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[MyTurn2Raise]

I make a fair bet from this hand at limit and I suck, so I suggest to play it.

[wackjob]

234x is definately a poor hand in EP. Comparing this type of hand to QJ or KJ in HE is idiocy.. comparing omaha and HE is pretty pointless really.

The point illustrated by the hand posted was how this type of hand will get you in serious trouble. Even when you hit your hand you are likely to get 1/4. Unless you are a superior postflop player I don't think you are really going to gain much by playing a hand like this. If you are above average post flop, you are likely going to lose money with it.

Of course, there are always some situations that warrant the playing and even raising of such a hand, but I find them few and far between.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Even when you hit your hand you are likely to get 1/4.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wackjob - Not true.

It is true that you'll often get quartered.

How often depends on the pre-flop tightness of your opponents and what particular two cards of the hand the end up being used to make low. But in a full game you will not get quartered (plus sixthed or eighthed) more than about two hands out of five, and if some of your opponents fold starting hands like 3489 (as they should, regardless of suitedness) you'll get fractionated less than that.

"Likely" and "often" are not the same.

Buzz

[benwood]

Thank you Buzz for defending the much maligned (sp?) 32 hand a little bit. Let me also add that the 32 flops more lo-draw straight/draw combos than either the A2 or A3. Specifically, 32 flops this combo draw when a 54, 64, or 65 comes down. Think about it. So, in reality, you are not always drawing to just a 1/2 & often getting quartered.

[wackjob]

Double suited I like this hand a lot.