5/10 draw against a rock

[broken_downstem]

5/10 NL, 5 handed. The villian in this hand is weak tight and can be moved off some suprisingly strong hands (he sometimes shows his "fantastic laydowns"), but still has a general awareness of the game. For some reason, though, people keep paying him off when he hits.

Villian (~2500) raises to 25 UTG, cutoff and button call, SB folds, I call (~1200) in the BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

4 players, $105 pot, and the flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check, villian bets 75, folded to me. I check-raise to 225 and he gives me a slightly suprised look and then calls.

The turn is 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 players and $550 in the pot. I?

I was hoping to end it on the flop, but when he called it means he probably has AK (possibly KQ or a set, but the look he gave me feels a lot like he was not happy to see that raise). Is continuing the semi-bluff worth it in this spot? If i bet here and he calls and I hit on the river I can probably get his whole stack, as he would not expect such a strong semi-bluff (I have been playing my draws very weak all night). If I check here, he will see it as meaning I have either a monster or nothing and will check behind. He will also check behind on the river if I check again. If the turn goes check-check and I miss on the river, should I try for a bluff and bet, say, 2/3 of the pot? Or does my turn check give him enough doubt that he will call, hoping I was bluffing? This is one of those hands where I feel that I leak a lot of money since I rarely am comfortable with how they turn out. Thoughts?

[tbach24]

Bet the turn. If he calls and you miss the river, give it up. If he calls and you hit the river, I'm not sure what the correct move is, possibly a large bet to make him think that you are pissed about that river and trying to buy the pot or something. If he raises the turn, if you get pot odds call, if not fold. If you hit the river, bet the pot. If you miss, make the same play but fold to the raise.

[Yeti]

Check-call the flop.

There's been a lot of posts like this lately, and building a pot out of position with a draw is a bad idea. If you had $400 you simply check raise allin on the flop but with your stack size you need to merely call.

Or, another, probably better, approach, bet out for $100, hope he makes it ~$350, and you push.

[Jason Strasser]

What type of rock is this player? Is he the type to bet then call a raise with some good one pair hands like AA or AK? Or is he the type who will also bet then call a raise with a better hand here like a set or a two pair? Also, does he bet at this flop with JJ?

Anyhow, I think you should check/call the flop. I will also lead out here sometimes, but I'll also lead out here often with a set or KQ. The problem with check raising the flop is getting called and then dealing with the turn. Because you are out of position, and because you made the pot nice and big, when you brick the turn you are in a weird spot. I much prefer raising here when you have position so that you have the option to buy a free river.

The problem with putting the opponent on AK is that often on a board like this even a rock will look you up. There are lots of possible draw hands, and the turn didn't get there.

Anyhow, my default boring line would be to check/call the flop and lead the turn if you hit or check and then figure out the turn. The thing is, if he has AK or AA, he may just want to get to showdown anyway so that you wont need to semibluff to see free cards. I dont like going for the check/raise when you hit either. Because when you hit a flush on the turn often there are plenty of action killers that can mess you up on the river. Some players will also not give you credit for a flush and think you are making a move.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
Or, another, probably better, approach, bet out for $100, hope he makes it ~$350, and you push.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice. On the flop, if a ROCK raises you to $350 here, it is sure as heck not AA or AK. The rock is also not scared of KK or QQ, and will have an easy time putting you on a draw or maybe even bottom set. Regardless... I think this line is suicide and not smart.

-Jason

[Yeti]

Yeah true. I think I just ignored the whole rock aspect of the post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I was mainly dishing out general advice about not bloating the pot out of position with this hand.

[Jason Strasser]

Well leading out and then moving over the top of a raise doesnt seem like great advice as to how to keep a pot small.

-Jason

[Yeti]

Check call then.

Just ignore my other posts, check calling is best. I tacked on the 'probably better' approach in an edit, but its really more suited to open-ended SF draws on middle cards, not v an UTG rock raiser.

I'll spend more time constructing my replies next time. And actually read the post.

[Blackjack]

Pushing is awful.. If he raised it to $350.. he's got a damn good hand and most players even at 5/10 won't lay down Overpair or TPTK there.

[Yeti]

Yeah I've just said ignore that post.

And he's only about 45/55 to AK and AA anyway.