Flopped a set of tens, but did I play it right?

[Fianchetto]

$12/$24 B&M

Loose game with probably one other tight player in it. 3-4 soft spots (including UTG+1) that play too loose preflop, they have a decent amount of aggression postflop and a keen unwillingness to lay down a hand. Another thing about UTG+1 is even though he is too loose preflop, I haven't seen him raise the expensive streets without a solid hand. I'm a little sketchy on the details as this was a few days ago.

UTG+1 open raises, he is cold called in 4 spots, SB mucks, and I call in the BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],

Who reraises here? I usually will 3-bet with TT if I can narrow the field and/or get position. In this pot I wasn't getting anybody out, and its unlikely I would win unimproved, so I just called. With pocket jacks I probably 3-bet.

6 players (6BB)

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, UTG+1 bets, call, raise, fold, fold, I 3-bet, the remaining players call.

4 players (12BB)

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG+1 raises, one cold call behind him, and I call.

3 players (18BB)

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, UTG+1 bets, MP caller, and I call.

How did I do?

[Frogger]

Raise the turn. I'm putting the agressor on a KQs, meaning he has top 2 pair. That's why he might have raised you on the turn where he thought his money card dropped.

The caller on the end I think had a flush draw but picked up a small piece (maybe queens) so he decided the pot odds were there to call one bet, not 2 at the end.

I think your hand was good. However, the agressors raise on the turn could ALSO mean he picked up broadway but it would be unlikely since he bet out on the flop (or was he the raiser).

Let us know.

[steveyz]

While it's certainly possible UTG+1 has AJ, KK, or QQ, it's also very possible he has KQ (or even KT). I'd be tempted to go one more raise on turn because of that cold caller who you are beating for sure. You are getting 2:1 for your money and I think you're good here more than 33% of the time.

[steveyz]

UTG+1 did raise pre-flop so he could very well have been betting with AJ on that flop.

[Fianchetto]

Frogger,

Yes, UTG+1 was the preflop raiser, he bet the flop, called two more cold, then he raised me on the turn.

I did think about raising the turn, but since he had raised preflop, I had to conisder that he might have a bigger set or broadway. The only hand I can really see him raising with preflop and on the turn, that I'm beating, is KQ.

So if my math is right then:

I'm ahead:
9 ways he can hold KQ

vs.

I'm behind:
3 ways for KK
3 ways for QQ
16 ways for AJ

So its 22:9, more than 2:1 that I'm behind here, that's why I just called the turn.

[Garland]

Hi Fianchetto,

[ QUOTE ]
Who reraises here? I usually will 3-bet with TT if I can narrow the field and/or get position. In this pot I wasn't getting anybody out, and its unlikely I would win unimproved, so I just called. With pocket jacks I probably 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would simply call as you did. You're not getting anyone out of this hand with a 3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
How did I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would lead the flop myself. There's three big reasons I want to do it.

1) It's deceptive. No one will put you on a set, at least early on. You could have a 10, QJ for an OESD or K.

2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.

3) It's easier to play. Now if UTG+1 simply calls the flop and raises the turn, you can slow down because he's more likely to have AJ, QQ or KK rather than AK or KQ. When you checked to him and let him bet on the flop, you are more in the dark to his holdings because he may be betting simply because he was the preflop raiser.

I would never put someone on a higher set unless he gets raise crazy. The way you played it, I think it's worth at least one more raise on the turn because he's more likely to have a hand like KQ or K10.

Garland

[Six_of_One]

Where is this 12/24 game anyway? Bay area? $3 chips, I'm assuming...sounds like a good game. I'm asking because I'll be in the bay area in a couple weeks, so if it's nearby I might try to check it out.

Thanks.

[flapjack]

Preflop- I agree with your thinking.

Flop- I would bet out on the flop and hope UTG+1 raises. If you check/raise after he bets the pot is going to be huge (assuming he gets a couple of callers). This way gut shots are going to call (and they would be correct to do so). If they have to call two cold it helps for a couple of reasons. Some people won't call two cold for a gut shot but they will call one (correct or not). They also may fear that you will three bet.

The check raise way builds a big pot but I would hate to lose this pot to a striaght. If you check raise you most likely won't knock anybody out.

Turn- Of the hands a sane player would play like this you are behind: KK, QQ, AJ. You are ahead of AA, JJ, AK, KQ, KJ. I would three be here. You are ahead most of the time. Charge the third person to draw out on you. If Utg+1 caps, call the turn and a river bet (unless a scare card comes and there is much action).

If you don't think UTG+1 would play AK or KJ like this then a call may be in order.

River- If Utg+1 didn't cap then bet out as long as no A or J shows up. If a heart shows up I bet out and make a crying call if raised.

[flapjack]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.



[/ QUOTE ]

What do you say to the followig: The pot is already good sized on the flop (6BB) and most likely going to get quite large no matter what. I would rather win a modest/large pot then give people the correct odds to draw out on me in a monster. I think this is a product of my playing in very loose games and would like to get another opinion of it.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.



[/ QUOTE ]

What do you say to the followig: The pot is already good sized on the flop (6BB) and most likely going to get quite large no matter what. I would rather win a modest/large pot then give people the correct odds to draw out on me in a monster. I think this is a product of my playing in very loose games and would like to get another opinion of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is sufficiently large that it's impossible to give incorrect drawing odds, pot and implied to drive people out. The best you can do is make them pay through the nose to beat you, and if you can dodge a few bullets, a HUGE pot is coming your way. The only way to drive people out is to play no limit/pot limit where you can make it hugely incorrect for them to catch their straights/flushes, etc. In my opinion the person with a set should be in a mindset to have as many people in the pot as possible throwing in as much money in the pot as possible by whatever means possible and expect to lose one in awhile to suck outs.

Garland