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  #1  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:49 AM
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Default JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

Villain is BB, 65/4/.7 and autorated as LPP w/125 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

BB's raise caught me off guard and I figured I was behind a set/2 pr. I didn't think he'd play a FD this way so I felt a 3 bet was spewing. LP has to have something right?

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

An overcard and the flush makes it. In PT review I now feel I should have b/f since I wasn't putting him on the flush, but I doubt LP fold his hand for one.

River: (5.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds.

Weak/tight, thank you WLLHE. I just don't feel my hand is good since the flop, and I felt BB was looking for a CR on the Turn.

How bad does this hand suck?

Final Pot: 6.25 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2005, 10:57 AM
midget23 midget23 is offline
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

Have you seen him check raise twice in a hand so far? The turn check from him seems very weak to me, your hand was probably good on the turn and winnable with a bet there. The river i call but less confident that i'm good and expect to see something like 78 among other hands that you probably beat, and a few that you lose to like KT.
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:00 AM
jason_t jason_t is offline
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

3-bet the flop.
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

I understand your reasoning on why you didn't, but you still really need to

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

3-bet flop pretty much all the time. He probably just finished reading SSHE and is raising his flush draw for the first time LOL. Seriously, what could he be raising with? A flush draw, an OESD, a weak overpair, a flopped weak two pair with likely hidden outs available, a set, top pair, less than top pair? You're ahead of most of the more likely of these and MUST charge his draw and make him define his hand. No flop raise means you guess all the way thru.

Then on the turn, OMG you should bet. You either win right away or know you're probably beat. When you checked behind him, you asked him to take a shot at you on the river which even most LPP will do.

On the river, you very well might have folded the winner. You should have called him down, you were getting 6:1 with no real evidence you were beat.

Throw that Lee Jones book in the garbage. You'll get your brains beaten in with that.

And stop thinking the flop hit him, it most likely didn't. Play like you're ahead until you have evidence, real evidence, you're beaten. (Props to elindauer for my ongoing transformation to this philosophy...)
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2005, 11:58 AM
gopnik gopnik is offline
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

I'd bet the turn and fold to a c/r.
Take a free showdown.
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

[ QUOTE ]
make him define his hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Where in SSHE did you read this? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:26 PM
badbill7 badbill7 is offline
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

I absolutely hate not three betting flop. You dont know what this guy has, he is obviously a horrid player. He could be on flush draw, bluff, top pair, anything really. I three bet and if he calls i lead turn. If reraise on turn i probably fold. Another play i dont neccesarily likebut is worth considreration is take free card on turn and call river. I think this guy i call with jj most of time unless i know im beat and you dont know that
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:40 PM
Los Feliz Slim Los Feliz Slim is offline
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

3-bet the flop, bet if checked to on the turn. Fold to c/r on the turn.
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: JJ UTG+1 gets weak tight or good fold?

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I get why 3-betting the flop is the standard play. But is it typical for an LP to be CRing at 2/4? A TAG or LAG does that and I would have automatically 3-bet and called the cap if need be.

BACKGROUND: I've been just above breakeven at 1/2 for over 50,000 hands and the rake is killer, so I moved to 2/4 and have found some serious moronic stuff. (Cold calling with 47o, ATSWD, etc.)Same stuff as 1/2.

I have way more than enough BR for 2/4 that I've built at .50/1 &amp; 1/2. My thoughts were if the play was similar to 1/2 I would come out better with the rake structure of 2/4. My game isn't perfect and I'm trying to use my reads more and adjust accordingly. SSHE is a daily read as well.

With LP's CR am I seeing MUBS here? When an LP gets froggy at 1/2 they generally have a big hand.
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