Reraise on Turn with small straight in a very big pot?

#1 12-08-2005, 08:25 AM

Hi, I am still beginner on the way to intermediate. PP 2/4 My opponents seem to be good players, maybe slightly loose...
I made my ministraight on turn and want to know, if someone would re-raise with my cards. I thought, that my straight maybe was only second best right there, but on the other hand I can buy a top flush, so it would be kind of "semi-bluff-reraise"!
Opinions?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $2. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
UTG (poster) checks, 2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP3 raises, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB folds, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

macdaddy991 · #2 12-08-2005, 08:29 AM

I would 3 bet the turn and bet the river.

Solid_p · #3 12-08-2005, 10:11 AM

Fold preflop, raise the flop, 3-bet the turn. It's not close.

#4 12-08-2005, 10:41 AM

TY for your advise, raise the flop is interesting and I think now that you are right!
Folf preflop I dont think: I have category 5 according Sklansky, have the best position and also the pot odds seem to be OK.

@bsolute_luck · #5 12-08-2005, 10:45 AM

preflop is interesting. is calling really bad here? i'm not sure with 2 posters in it already.

i raise the flop donk [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] you have the nut flush draw, straight flush draw, possible overcard, and straight draw with a bunch of goombas stuck in the middle.

pound the bets home on the turn again with tons of donators happily giving you their money.

#6 12-08-2005, 11:10 AM

IMO, a reraise on the turn is your best play. The BEST hand that you can put an opponent on is a set for the Button (who could have called the pre-flop raise with 99, 44 or 33 and played aggressive when he hit). You are ahead, with redraws to a better hand that may make you even more (if you hit the nut flush, with BB or UTG potentially playing KQd). By re-raising, you get 1-3 BB in the pot with a +EV. If the board pairs the river you can check it down (or bet and fold/call to a Button raise). I'd bet the seven after BB & UTG check, as I'd assume they'd bet a made higher straight (and I'd LOVE playing against them the rest of the day if they were still in the hand with 6x), and I'd try to get one more bet out of the Button's set (or TT, 88, A9).

kiddj · #7 12-08-2005, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TY for your advise, raise the flop is interesting and I think now that you are right!
Folf preflop I dont think: I have category 5 according Sklansky, have the best position and also the pot odds seem to be OK.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you are consistently calling cold bets with weak suited aces, you are spewing money. In this case with two posters it wasn't that bad, but you'll find that unless you hit your flush (or flush draw), your hand is pretty weak. When your ace hits, you'll often be dominated by the pre flop raiser with his ace-better kicker.

#8 12-08-2005, 11:44 AM

TY for your competent answer. The one thing you maybe oversaw is someone having 6d,5d.
You really would like to play with someone holding this the whole day??

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

#9 12-08-2005, 11:59 AM

You are right. I ruled it (65) out from UTG, but when I re-read it he had to post to open, so it is possible. I suppose the button could have also had it and called a pf raise with it w/ implied odds (assuming posters call), then raised the flop for a free turn card. If that were the case, though, he wouldn't raise when his 5 pairs on the turn since he's been bet into and has to figure SOMEONE has a 9 and that he is behind. With 65d, he'd likely call the bet and hope for the 7 or the money card (7 or 2d, which of course you hold) on the river (lacking any more info than he is "slightly loose").

Net, I still re-raise the turn knowing I'm ahead. When BB & UTG check, I rule out a 6 for them and value-bet hoping the Button calls (as he likely will with TT, 88, A9 or set in addition to the unlikely but possible 65d).

Thinking more, the only way I fold on the river is if I bet, button raises and UTG 3-bets. Even if button raises, it's worth 1 bet, hoping he's way overplaying the set. I'm not folding my wheel for 1 bet when the range of hands he's playing gives me a +EV.

Thanks for pointing out the 65d though. I shouldn't have assumed ANY hand holding a 6 was a bad hand to play that far. Most - to be sure - but not ALL.

#10 12-08-2005, 12:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought, that my straight maybe was only second best right there, but on the other hand I can buy a top flush, so it would be kind of "semi-bluff-reraise"!

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no reason to think that your straight is not good at this time. I would be pretty sure that your straight is good. You have shown no aggression to this point, so your raise might not have been respected. Anyways, here is how I would play this hand.

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $2. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
UTG (poster) checks, 2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP3 raises, Hero calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold this preflop. At the time, only the blinds and the poster were invested other than the raiser. The possibility of domination with your ace is too much. You are suited which is great, but unless you are positive this is going to be a multiway large pot, I think you have to fold.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (12.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is where I think you have to be in there raising. The more bets that get put in here, the better. You have 9 outs to the nuts, which you will hit 35% of the time. With 4 people in the hand, that ALONE, is enough to be jamming the pot. You also have 3 more outs (the other 3 fives) to a straight, which is most likely good. And finally, your raises may knock someone out with a hand like AJ buying you a couple outs if an ace hits. This is not likely, and I wouldn't put too much emphasis on these outs, but it is a possibility. So with your flush, straight, and discounted overcard outs, you probably have about 13 outs twice. You'll hit this 50% of the time. Raise, Raise, Raise!

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I don't see how you are not raising this pot. You are almost guaranteed to be good here. There are 4 of you in a pot where you have the second nuts and a STRONG redraw to the nuts if, for some reason, you are beat. You HAVE to 3-bet this, hoping that the button caps and traps the other two players for two more big bets each.

[ QUOTE ]

River: (18.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB folds, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 18.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's where I am not comfortable completely, but I think you have to put a bet in the pot. If it is raised behind you, you can make a determination on how likely someone has a 6. I don't think anyone does, by looking at the preflop and flop action though. The button was playing like he had TT or 99 all hand. Although, I might chicken out myself and check/call this hand. That was longer than I thought, and if anyone has any differing thoughts on how to play the hand, but that is what I would do on all streets.