last one tonight, completely lost

[WordWhiz]

I'd bet the flop while I was at it. You're the PFR against 6 random hands. You have two overs and a gutshot, 3 of which give you the nuts. No one knows you whiffed. Pokerstove gives you a decent pot equity edge over 6 random hands. Also, you want a hand like a single spade to fold, so if the turn is A-Q of spades, you don't get outdrawn on the river.

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerstove gives you a decent pot equity edge over 6 random hands.

[/ QUOTE ]
sucks that all those 6 "random" hands don't call your bets here, huh?

[AussieBattler]

I hate hands like this and an wondering if the reason there has been so few replies is that everyone is also lost about how to play them too.

Reads would be really useful here but alas all too frequenty there are none and its a huge put after the flop and that board is full of draws and none of them are going anywhere.

Im going to put my thoughts out there....not because I am sure I am right but because I want to learn something (by typing this post I already have gone through a useful thought process but I want more [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). So please, correct, critique and let us know your thoughts.

Here goes. The reasons I (and maybe the OP and others as well) find this sort of hand tough to play are:
1) We are getting ridiculous odds on the flop by the time it is to us (approx 20:1). So I have to call given my gutshot...even if its for metagame just so I dont appear to be a total tightie on what appears to be a great table (look at all those cold calls preflop).
2) However with this many players still in the pot Im almost certain that it will have probably hit somebody somewhat. Bad players dont fold if they made even 2nd and sometimes 3rd pair (regardless if the pots sizes means their play coincides with the correct play or not). Therefore to bet out with AK is not correct.
2) So in the hand in question we check the turn and someone else apart from flop bettor now bets and ignoring flush and boat and redraws we have 3 clean outs to the nuts. So we have odds to call, no?
3) Then we hit a TPTK on the turn. Not great because we may well be dead in the water to a made st8 or flush and even crappy 2 pairs. Are we good enough here often enough? FWIW In this particular hand the pot isnt THAT huge so I like to think I would probably bet/fold or just fold my TPTK when a different player to the post flop raiser bets. Its different in the "heat of battle" at low limit tables though so is a flat call down all that bad?
4) Lets consider what to do if it had been a K of different suit. I probably bet this turn knowing I have to be really careful as noone except a crazy is going to go nuts here without the goods. And yes, there is still a crazy amount of cards that help our opponents here.
4) In this and similiar hands I think that THAT THE CRUCIAL PLACE IS THE TURN. If I call the turn Im probably going to have to call a single river bet (but yes, if players go nuts I can find a fold if its 2 or more to me)

So please let us know what you think...and if you find yourself stuck in situations like this then at least say so so that I know Im not alone.