3 hands, 3 questions.

silencio · #1 10-06-2005, 01:49 PM

Villain is LAG. Is this a fold against a LAG as well ?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) HandConverter Link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero...

Hand 2: Villain is unknown

Is it ok to wait for the river to start raising ? Should I cap or not ?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) HandConverter Link

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

Hand 3: is that a good fold or a bad fold ? I think that maybe I should have bet\folded the river

Villain is the same unknown for hand 2 (this hand was played before hand 2)

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) HandConverter Link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

lautzutao · #2 10-06-2005, 01:57 PM

I call the bet in hand 1. We have 8 good outs here I believe(4 A's and 4 Q's), though even at an outs discount we can peel one off(he could be betting the flush draw I guess).

Hand 2 I cap the turn. If he bets into us again on the river just call.

Hand 3 bet the river, fold to a raise everyone?

numeri · #3 10-06-2005, 01:58 PM

Hand 1: Check/call the flop.

Hand 2: I raise the turn. You don't have the nut hand on a paired board.

Hand 3: Horrible fold. Bet/fold the river.

lautzutao · #4 10-06-2005, 02:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I raise the turn. You don't have the nut hand on a paired board.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you just call a 3-bet here?

SocialWelfareIV · #5 10-06-2005, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Check/call the flop.

Hand 2: I raise the turn. You don't have the nut hand on a paired board.

Hand 3: Horrible fold. Bet/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1. I really like the bet on the flop in hand 1. The pot is fairly large and I would hope to buy the button and take a free card on the turn.

Hand 2. Agreed, raise the turn. Having called the turn and raise the river, I don't think I'm capping here -- KT and KJ are too likely after the three bet. Plus I don't like that UTG+1 called the flop and then led the turn -- that's telling you that he's strong here.

Hand 3. Bet/fold and check/call are close as I'm not sure how ofter you're good here. That board is very scary. Folding is terrible, though; you're good here more than 25%.

(On second thought, I slightly favor a check/call in hand 3. I like inducing a bluff with this board).

SoCalPat · #6 10-06-2005, 02:22 PM

Hand 1: If he's got top pair and no redraw, you've got 7 outs. You're getting 8.5-1, and you're 6.5-1 to improve, provided your opponent doesn't have AK or AT. There are other situations that exist that would significantly cut down your pot odds, but since this is the most likely scenario you're up against, I would call and see the river.

Hand 2: The PF raise is fine, and I'm OK with the flop call, but the turn and river play is atrocious. The worst of players will call raises with KTo, and I'll take a flyer on KJs and I don't know a person alive who would fold TT for two cold, and all those hands crush yours.

Had you not smooth-called the turn, you probably wouldn't have gotten into the raising war on the river. The board is paired, so any resistance should be taken seriously. Action here indicates strongly you're toast. If you lost, you wasted at least one BB, maybe more. And no way should you be capping this river.

Hand 3: Bet the river and fold to a raise.

SocialWelfareIV · #7 10-06-2005, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) HandConverter Link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, BB folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a question for people advocating a bet/fold line in hand 3. What exactly do we think an opponent is paying us off with here?

Let's say the opponent was peeling on the flop with overcards. AK-AT, KQ-KT, QJ-QT. Except for AK, KJ, and AJ (split pot anyway), each of these hands is now ahead of us, and most of them are calling, except for the hands with a ten.

I guess 77 might give us a crying call, but I'm not sure 55-22 is calling here.

Do we really think we're good often enough here to bet?

DCWildcat · #8 10-06-2005, 03:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I call the bet in hand 1. We have 8 good outs here I believe(4 A's and 4 Q's), though even at an outs discount we can peel one off(he could be betting the flush draw I guess).

Hand 2 I cap the turn. If he bets into us again on the river just call.

Hand 3 bet the river, fold to a raise everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks good to me.

Waiting to the river with a high paired board in hand 2 kills. We need to get some definition.

SoCalPat · #9 10-06-2005, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do we really think we're good often enough here to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Betting here is the lesser of two evils.

This isn't an attractive board -- that much we can agree upon. But your opponent won't fold if you don't bet. Will he here? Tough to say. But you'll know for sure if you're beaten if you are raised, whereas you won't know if your hand is good if you check/call.

Betting here and being called by a better hand isn't a horrible play by any stretch. But you put yourself in a position of making a bad play (it's not an abominable play by any stretch given the size of the pot) by checking and then deciding whether or not to call. You put yourself in a position where you might fold the winner, and who wants that?

We're not betting here because we think we'll get paid off by a better hand. We're betting here so we don't second-guess ourselves after making an incorrect fold. For one BB, that's a small price to pay.

silencio · #10 10-06-2005, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call the bet in hand 1. We have 8 good outs here I believe(4 A's and 4 Q's), though even at an outs discount we can peel one off(he could be betting the flush draw I guess).

Hand 2 I cap the turn. If he bets into us again on the river just call.

Hand 3 bet the river, fold to a raise everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks good to me.

Waiting to the river with a high paired board in hand 2 kills. We need to get some definition.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I thought the same. But if I cap the turn and call one bet on the river or call the turn and cap the river it costs me the same (if I am not folding to the a turn cap, which I am not sure that many are able to do). The only way I can save here is by not capping the turn and check calling the river.