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#1
08-20-2005, 05:18 PM
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Was this a angle shoot or good metagame
I was playing some 5-150 spread limit at CAZ last night. I am UTG+2 and have AA and limp as I know that one of the 3 LAG's on the table is going to pump it up, as we have not seen a unraised pot in about 2 hours. MP limps, and sure enough one of the LAG's, the one on the button raises to 30, the blinds fold and it comes back to me, I RR to 90.
Now here is where it gets weired... MP does not say a word and makes a string raise in multiple trips to the stack to a $250 total to go, which is more than the maximum bet of $150 by $10. The dealer's reaction to the bet showed she knew this was a string bet, but did not say anything which IMO is correct. A player next to MP says that the bet is too much, the dealer tosses MP back $10. Before the button or anyone else has a chance to act I say "So how much of that was a string bet?". The dealer stops the action and tells the table that this is a string bet and after some talk, we decide that he brought out more than half the amount needed to make the minimum raise in his first reach and let his action stand as a mini-raise to $180. Action folds to the button who flat calls as do I. Anyway, now that you have the action, here is the thought process behind it... 1) I had about $1000 behind and covered both MP and button by about 2:1. 2) The button was hyper aggressive and I knew he would be firing hard at just about any flop. 3) That MP was a less experienced player than myself and would likely overplay a lessor hand given the chance, but could drive out the button as they have been going to war and the button has been getting sucked out on to the point that the button is somewhat scared of MP when he gets aggressive. 4) I had not played a hand in about 40 minutes and looked VERY tight and weak. I am wanted my reluctance to play the big raise from the MP player to look like I was scared and was weak, but had a hand I wanted to see the flop with. 5) I wanted to stack both players and wanted to act as a aggression dampener between the two of them in the action. I figured if MP went wild, which it looked like he wanted to, that I would lose the button to the heat, but with me to deal with the MP player would be more careful and tone it down a little. Results; The "plan" worked perfectly I stacked both players with top set. But afterwards I was feeling a little guilty that I might have taken advantage of the string bet rule. On the other hand I got the reaction/action I wanted... The players at the table got scared of me after that hand and I was able to pickup some nice pots with air afterwards. So the post, I do not feel too bad about it, but am somewhat torn as to rather I was "in the right" or not. 
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#2
08-20-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: Was this a angle shoot or good metagame
[ QUOTE ]
I was playing some 5-150 spread limit at CAZ last night. I am UTG+2 and have AA and limp as I know that one of the 3 LAG's on the table is going to pump it up, as we have not seen a unraised pot in about 2 hours. MP limps, and sure enough one of the LAG's, the one on the button raises to 30, the blinds fold and it comes back to me, I RR to 90. Now here is where it gets weired... MP does not say a word and makes a string raise in multiple trips to the stack to a $250 total to go, which is more than the maximum bet of $150 by $10. The dealer's reaction to the bet showed she knew this was a string bet, but did not say anything which IMO is correct. A player next to MP says that the bet is too much, the dealer tosses MP back $10. Before the button or anyone else has a chance to act I say "So how much of that was a string bet?". The dealer stops the action and tells the table that this is a string bet and after some talk, we decide that he brought out more than half the amount needed to make the minimum raise in his first reach and let his action stand as a mini-raise to $180. Action folds to the button who flat calls as do I. Anyway, now that you have the action, here is the thought process behind it... 1) I had about $1000 behind and covered both MP and button by about 2:1. 2) The button was hyper aggressive and I knew he would be firing hard at just about any flop. 3) That MP was a less experienced player than myself and would likely overplay a lessor hand given the chance, but could drive out the button as they have been going to war and the button has been getting sucked out on to the point that the button is somewhat scared of MP when he gets aggressive. 4) I had not played a hand in about 40 minutes and looked VERY tight and weak. I am wanted my reluctance to play the big raise from the MP player to look like I was scared and was weak, but had a hand I wanted to see the flop with. 5) I wanted to stack both players and wanted to act as a aggression dampener between the two of them in the action. I figured if MP went wild, which it looked like he wanted to, that I would lose the button to the heat, but with me to deal with the MP player would be more careful and tone it down a little. Results; The "plan" worked perfectly I stacked both players with top set. But afterwards I was feeling a little guilty that I might have taken advantage of the string bet rule. On the other hand I got the reaction/action I wanted... The players at the table got scared of me after that hand and I was able to pickup some nice pots with air afterwards. So the post, I do not feel too bad about it, but am somewhat torn as to rather I was "in the right" or not. [/ QUOTE ] Played it great, never heard of a speard limit game like this. Any way using informstion from a retarded string raise is not angle shooting. Nice play, nh. It also seems that most money is won and lost on the flop over the long term in this type of spread limit game. ( and most for that mater. I mean raise to 30 preflop, with a reraise to the max, you can play almost anything after the flop. How do you adjust your play super tight i assume?
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#3
08-20-2005, 05:51 PM
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Re: Was this a angle shoot or good metagame
[ QUOTE ]
How do you adjust your play super tight i assume? [/ QUOTE ] From a preflop stand point it plays a lot like a NL game most of the time. A PF RR of $150 generally means AA, KK or the odd QQ or AK hand. I mix up my game depending on the skill level of the table. If I have a table full of inexperienced players I have to play pretty tight as there is little or no chance of bluffing or semi-bluffing to take down a pot. But if the skill level of the players is higher (it is more times than not) then a strong metagame yeilds lots of nice pots. I am seen as a player that is so tight I squeek, in reality I am somewhere between TAG and LAG. Where it weired is when you see a flop for $20-$50 PF with 6-9 people. That is when you really have to a good hand reading skills and pot control skills and player reading skills. It is not fun to suddenly which to limit skills in mid hand because the pot is larger than you can bet. The game has a lot of variance too. Last night I was up as much as >$2000 and ended up leaving with less than a buyin... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
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#4
08-20-2005, 06:17 PM
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Re: Was this a angle shoot or good metagame
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How do you adjust your play super tight i assume? [/ QUOTE ] From a preflop stand point it plays a lot like a NL game most of the time. A PF RR of $150 generally means AA, KK or the odd QQ or AK hand. I mix up my game depending on the skill level of the table. If I have a table full of inexperienced players I have to play pretty tight as there is little or no chance of bluffing or semi-bluffing to take down a pot. But if the skill level of the players is higher (it is more times than not) then a strong metagame yeilds lots of nice pots. I am seen as a player that is so tight I squeek, in reality I am somewhere between TAG and LAG. Where it weired is when you see a flop for $20-$50 PF with 6-9 people. That is when you really have to a good hand reading skills and pot control skills and player reading skills. It is not fun to suddenly which to limit skills in mid hand because the pot is larger than you can bet. The game has a lot of variance too. Last night I was up as much as >$2000 and ended up leaving with less than a buyin... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] Yeah i could definatly image lots of varience. Sounds like a crazy game, nl preflop stradgey, nl on the flop, limit on the turn and river. very gut wrenching!
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#6
08-22-2005, 11:37 AM
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Re: Was this a angle shoot or good metagame
Hard to say it was an angle shoot since you had no way of knowing the guy would string bet. You asked for a ruling and played your hand. Kudos to you.
The only scenario where I think you could be criticised is as follows (again, I don't think this is the case based upon your OP): Suppose string-better was doing this all night and you (Mr Angle Shooter) were waiting for an opportunity to trap him and other fish with AA. Then I would say you are similar to the guy who observes an opponent placing his cards behind his chips (never says a word for 3 hours) and then waits until he gets AA to declare that his opponent is all-in because his chips are in front of his cards.
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