My 2nd Biggest Losing Hand

[derick]

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... I want to build a library of opening hands tables. ...

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Add this to your library.

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Ah 1493820 87.24 212248 12.40 6236 0.36 0.874
2s 7c 212248 12.40 1493820 87.24 6236 0.36 0.126

Summary:

Write this on your monitor in perm marker!

Deuce seven beats AA 12% of the time. Raise Preflop until they don't call you.

[pzhon]

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Deuce seven beats AA 12% of the time. Raise Preflop until they don't call you.

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Non sequitur. AA is worth much more than the blinds. I average about 15 big blinds with AA, 10 times the amount of the blind money, and I would win a lot less if I followed your advice.

72o outflops AA about 3.6% of the time.

[AKQJ10]

I agree with pzhon - if your goal is to take down the blinds when you get a good hand, you're playing a -EV game given the amount you pay in blinds and time charge or rake when you DON'T get a good hand.

It goes back to the Fundamental Theorem - you want to induce your opponents to play "wrong". Folding to an open AA is never wrong unless you have the case aces.

[derick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Deuce seven beats AA 12% of the time. Raise Preflop until they don't call you.

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Non sequitur. AA is worth much more than the blinds. I average about 15 big blinds with AA, 10 times the amount of the blind money, and I would win a lot less if I followed your advice.

72o outflops AA about 3.6% of the time.

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I didn't make myself clear, What I meant was Raise Preflop unless your raises are getting too much respect, then you can consider something like limping in early position with AA and then check raising them if they raise you.

The main problem with this hand is that the original poster did not raise his big pocket pair preflop.

The only time at this level you might consider not raising preflop is if you find your last few preflop raises are getting too much respect and not getting called.

In this case with JJ in the small blind I would have bet about 5 times the big blind.

With AA I might consider betting 3-4 big blinds but I would almost never limp in the small blind.

In early position if thinking aggressive players are giving my preflop raises too much respect and folding to my raises I might consider checking AA and then checkraising their late position preflop raises. This will probably never happen at levels below .05/.10

Even at the .25/.50 level I'm sitting in tables where 30-40% of the players see the flop.

Your opponents call too much.
Don't give 27o , 69o a free flop.


Bet those pairs of aces kings queens and jacks.

[AKQJ10]

FMP:

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Folding to an open AA is never wrong unless you have the case aces or are getting awfully good pot odds (say something like 8:1 or more to outflop the aces with another pair).

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[sekrah]

JJ is overrated hand in these games.. Don't fall in love with it.

Key to microlimit holdem.. RAISE PREFLOP EVERYTIME YOU ARE READY TO PLAY A POT!

If it hasn't been raised yet, and you have a hand you want to play.. RAISE IT! Every every every every every every single time!! I cannot say this enough.. This is crucial.

With the limpers ahead of you, You MUST make this atleast $0.12 to go.

[Student]

As usual, you've hit the nail right on the head, and Thank You!

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"Key to microlimit holdem.. RAISE PREFLOP EVERYTIME YOU ARE READY TO PLAY A POT!

If it hasn't been raised yet, and you have a hand you want to play.. RAISE IT! Every every every every every every single time!! I cannot say this enough.. This is crucial."


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And you went on to say, because there are limpers ahead of me in the hand, the preflop raise should be significant. Good advice! This silly hand I've posted just keeps producing, and I'm gratified to have learned so much from so many 2+2 experts!

Dave

[sekrah]

They key to the raise EVERYTIME preflop, also involves firing out at the pot no matter what hits the board.

I.e. You're in the small blind with J-J, .01/.02 game.

MP1 limps, CO limps.

Add up your limpers, 2 total. Me personally, my standard raise, if action is to me with nobody limping in front of me, would be 4 BB or .08. I add 1 BB for every limper in front of me, up to a max of 7 BB total (0.14). Two limpers here, Raise to .12 (.08 + .04).

Now BB with 6-9 folds. Let's say MP1 and CO both call the raise (.10 more to them).

Flop comes Q-6-6. Pot size is .38. I like 1/3 to 1/2 pot size bet here.. Bet .15. MP1 folds. CO folds. You win the pot.

These guys are going to miss a flop like that most of the time. You have to make a solid continuation bet to push them out.

Now, if you limp in with J-J instead of raising, they have no reason to believe you are strong. You WANT them to think you are strong before the flop and the flop just made you stronger.

What's great is, you can do with ANY TWO CARDS. I'll sit there and wait a few orbits, waiting for a big hand.. All of a sudden I'll pick up something like 6-7 suited on the button with four limpers in front of me.. This is where you make the play. Build a little pot, Raise to .14. You'll get 1 or 2 limpers to come along for the ride, and they'll check to you, fire at the pot. It doesn't matter what your hole cards are.. You are looking to pick up a .30-.40 pot.

This is how you accumulate small pots at this levels and slowly accumulate wealth.

Also, if you are the preflop aggressor, you gotta be willing to fire raises back at people if they bet the flop in front of you. There's no bigger signal of strength to weak-tight players than a raise.

[Student]

VERY much appreciated!

My weakness concerns play, since I've simply read nothing about it (at least I haven't pursued reading about it, consciously)! I've bought 30 poker books, and 12 are 2+2s, and you'd think I'd learn how to PLAY poker by reading. Of course, I practice playing, and I'm learning things that work and things that don't work, from experience.

I just had a hair-raising 100 hands playing 1/2 cents NL HE on PokerStars. My luck was terrible. Mostly my hole cards were lousy, but when they were good the board didn't help me. Example: I get AA, and the guy with J6u flops the 6. He stays with me and the turn is a J. He has 2 pairs and I lose. I'm busy complimenting myself for my good play!

Finally, I get QdTd. The flop is something like 6d8dT, so I have high pair, and a 4-flush draw. I bet 20 cents, and a few stayed with me. The turn is something else, and the pot goes to maybe $2.00 (but my memory is fuzzy - I sure do remember that all three were still in against me). The turn is a diamond to complete my flush, and I go all-in. Two went all-in with me, and I had over $4 in the pot. The result was the biggest pot I've ever won, $10.75! That's 537.5 BBs we're talking about. I went from being down nearly $2.00 for the 100 hands to winning net $4.75. This is important to me, because I've been fighting to get back to $50 bankroll, and now I have $53.58.

The bad cards toughed me. I'd started with $1.00 and was losing, so I added $2.00 to the table. So my basis was then $3.00. When I continued to loss, being down $3.10 at one time, I finally changed tables. By then I'd added another $3.00. My intention was to have enough money that if a barnburner came in, and competition was great, that I'd double up into getting back in the game. Later I discovered that a fellow I had lots of info for was multitabling, but I was unaware of it then. I'm sure glad I switched!

I'll read and reread your playing advice. My first read didn't do it for me. I'll have to concentrate on it. But I shall; trust me! I know that you've stood on your head to help me, and I THANK YOU!

OK, this afternoon I get to go camping with my oldest son and his two oldest sons. This is my first camping trip in 30 years! So I'm going to hang up poker (except I'll get back to 2+2 if I get caught up with things!), and won't be back playing until Monday.

Thanks again!

Dave

[AKQJ10]

Congrats on breaking $50! Considering that you probably had some unlucky cards in that first downswing, and that you're also learning more by the day, hitting the good side of $50 is a milestone you should take pleasure in.

Enjoying the camping and forgetting poker for the weekend sounds like a good plan, too. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]