Phone at the table - bad floor decision?

[tessarji]

How would you rule if put in this spot?

Commerce $100 N/L. Very loose player in Seat 3, I'm in Seat 9.

The loose player calls a raise with K7s and outflops my AK. I lose the buyin. A few hands later, he gets up and his buddy who was sweating him sits down, and starts playing his chips.

3-4 hands later...

I raise JJ to $20 on the button. Four callers to the flop, which is AQ6. All check to me, so I put in my last $40. I figure it's worth it if I can fold a Q, though I expect an A to call. Since I was the raiser its possible no one has the top pair.

Seat 1 thinks quite a while and folds. Meanwhile, Seat 3 has opened his cell phone and dialed. When the dealer asks for his action, he raises his finger like 'just one moment please'. It becomes obvious that he is calling his friend. I complain about the one player to a hand rule, and after it becomes obvious the man is not going to hang up, I call the floor(wo)man.

The situation is explained to her, and she immediately objects that a player cannot sit in someone else's seat. Okay... no one at the table seems to know this, including me, and including the dealer, who didn't mention anything when the buddy tagged out. So I ask for a ruling. She says, 'just finish the hand'. In the meanwhile, the original player has shown up and is talking to his friend in the hotseat. They are obviously discussing the hand. I object again to the floorwoman, and she says again 'just finish the hand'. The original player, standing behind Seat 3, says 'Is he all-in? Well, so call.'. His friend then calls.

Seat 3 has KK and MHING. He gets pushed the pot and the floorwoman leaves.

I wasn't too teed off in this case, because if you take JJ up against KK with short stacks its a miracle that all the money didn't go in preflop; I probably was losing the hand either way. But, it rattles me that players at Commerce could so obviously break the rules with no apparent penalty at all.

Thoughts? How would you deal with the situation?

[Rick Nebiolo]

Per the rules a player can't play over or play another's chips in LA, but with all the new players I've seen it happen quite a bit in the last year or two. Once other players accepted the friend playing the others chips, the floor was right to allow the hand to continue. The floor should have said something about one player to a hand, but the fact it happened doesn't kill the hand (usually warnings are issued and repeat violators are dealt out). Also note that this situation was very unusual so it's hard to fault the floor.

The fact that the dealer didn't object doesn't surprise or bother me, especially if it was clear to the dealer that this was what others wanted. Had someone objected, he needs to know the rule and enforce it.

That said, as a player I've looked the other way (along with other players) when one extremely live playing friend replaces another live player (playing the same chips). But once the rule is brought up, generally it will and should be enforced.

You are lucky if the action goes clockwise these days in most of these small NL games. Meanwhile, expect third party commentary on most hands, as half the table is auditioning for a TV anchor job. It sucks from a purist standpoint, but the games are so good it sort of makes up.

~ Rick

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Also note that this situation was very unusual so it's hard to fault the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta disagree with you there, Rick (first time I ever typed those words).

If the floor is watching these guys huddle up and openly talk about strategy, and if the floor makes no effort to correct this infraction, then the floor is wrong.

I can't imagine a floorperson standing mute when he/she sees an Ace fall out of someone's sleeve. Nor can I imagine someone posting, "...this situation was very unusual so it's hard to fault the floor."

[Rick Nebiolo]

I assumed she knew that a friend was playing a friends chips and got confused regarding what was right regarding one player to a hand in this odd situation. The more I think about it, the more I agree with you.

BTW, don't have time to search to see if a discussion has been already posted but this weeks Ciaffone Card Player article regarding a betting decision (do two all-ins reopening the betting?) was interesting. I agree with Bob and was surprised to see that two other experts disagreed.

~ Rick

[jedi]

Isn't a cell phone not allowed at the table? The dealer should have MADE the player hang up or kill the hand. This isn't someone making a call to his wife in between hands. This is DURING a hand.