KJS betting for Value?

imaptone · #1 08-19-2004, 01:02 AM

In a loose 6-8 players / flop PP .5/1 game.

Is this a place where I can bet a draw for value? I raise the flop assuming the others are coming.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB

SnakeRat · #2 08-19-2004, 01:32 AM

You should have definitely raised preflop.

The rest is great, although I would have raised when it is first to me on the flop.

h_ven · #3 08-19-2004, 03:02 AM

Ya, I like that betting for value, I think you played it perfect, too bad you didnt' catch because you had outs up the ass on the turn.

SlantNGo · #4 08-19-2004, 10:10 AM

You think forcing everyone to call 2 cold on the flop is the better play? I like the call, then when it is raised, now you can start ramming & jamming, that's how I would play it.

#5 08-19-2004, 10:24 AM

hi

I would have also raised preflop at 50c/$1, as pots are often multiway raised or not. On the flop, the 3bet was well timed because if you raised when it came to you, you may not have sucked in as many people with the 3 bet later, and even forced some others out.

best

imaptone · #6 08-19-2004, 02:07 PM

How many players are necessary in a hand like this for the bets to have +EV. I would think with two cards to come I would need 4 callers on a straight draw and 3 on a flush draw. Is there a mathmatical way to figure this out?

sublime · #7 08-19-2004, 02:24 PM

You can raise here preflop, not a huge difference but I would.

I would raise the initial flop bet and try to knock out CO/Button.

afk · #8 08-19-2004, 02:35 PM

I'm with sublime here, other than that I like how you played the hand.

DMBFan23 · #9 08-19-2004, 02:53 PM

sure, just figure out the percentage of time you will hit your draw by the river (A) and the percentage of money you would be putting in the pot (B). if A is greater than B, there's +EV. (this works on the turn too, but you need do change the math because you only get one card to come on 4th street - you need more callers to bet for value)

this is oversimplified, as I usually assume that my odds of winning = odds hitting my flush = A. but I may hit and still lose. nevertheless, in a game of imperfect information, this works pretty well if your draw is strong.