Value bet straights and flushes when the board pairs

[TomBrooks]

Hand 2.

Definately bet the river, but between the chances of someone filling up a boat and having a better flush, I'd just call the raise as you did.

[numeri]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
I think I would have preferred to call MP2's river bet, as opposed to raise. I doubt whether MP2 raised the flop with just Jx. I think its more likely that he had something like 2 pair and may have made a full house when he leads with a bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like this point. In Hand 2, it's the top card that pairs, and a raise could easily mean Qx. In Hand 1, however, it is less likely that MP2 bet a K-high flop vs a PFR with Jx.

I'm not sure I just call the bet in Hand 1, but I like your point.

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I raise here pf. I can't see putting in extra money with JTs.

[/ QUOTE ]
Check the action again. And paying 2 isn't the end of the world - JTs plays fine agains a large fied.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop it's better to just call and go for overcalls. You're not getting the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold so I think your just chasing money out here.

[/ QUOTE ]
We'd like them to stay in. In fact, we'd like them to pay us lots of money to stay in. You need to be getting as many bets in the pot as possible on the flop and turn, because a lone A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] isn't calling on the river.

Don't slowplay non-nut flushes - they're too vulnerable.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I checked the action and I don't see why we want to put in extra money with JTs. I know that the starting charts are meant only as guidelines but they do have you just checking in BB with JTs. Why is this hand any different. I know they play well in a large field. What's your point?
OOOOOOPS!!! My humble apologies. I re,re-checked the action. I thought he was on the BB and raised with JTs.

As far as not raising your flush, the Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is out and you can't get the A or K to fold so how are you protecting your hand by raising? I can see raising for value but with the bettor on your right the only thing your going to do is drive out hopeless hands.

Edited to add humble apology

[Asim]

the first hand... I rpobably woudl not have 3-bet the river... he is a LP, and he donk bet into you... most likely a boat, if you take it down and he is showing trip jacks... then make a note and play accordingly next time

for the second hand, I would raise the river as much as i could... villian most likely has trip queens.. highly doubt a boat, odds are you would have seen a 3-bet on flop despite the flush, that is just my expeirence,

[POKhER]

Hand 1 CALL RIVER:
Fold the flop,
River is bad just call it.

Why (river)
Mp3 is LPP, Your raise preflop may of put him on AA/KK for you.

If he currently holds 2pair(The FLOP raise is a indication "NOTE: LP-P" raising!!!) the donk bet on the river screams "BOAT".

He could have AJo(Raise is an idication again) BUT DOES AJo raise this FLOP? I think not. . i'm confidant its twopair (NOTE THE READ IS LP-P!!!!)

As i put him on 2pair i call this AND EXPECT TO LOSE
Note: Pot size im not folding.


Hand 2 JUST CALL RIVER:
River is the only questionable thing so heres my opinion..

The flop raise probably puts him on "FLUSH" for you. As he could be calling anything but this fish is a PASSIVE FISH.

His raise(When theirs an obvious flush) makes me just want to call it. I dont see trips raising here and a passive one raising when theres a clear flush out? nah im calling.

We're also Out Of Position(OOP) so if we raise we may get capped(And probably have to call due to pot size!).

[tangential]

without looking:

Hand 1:
the flop raise puzzles me. You have an inside straight draw and an overcard.
You may have 5.5 outs. You do not make our hand often enough for a raise.
I would call and let Button call.

At the end a raise is fine since the worst thing that can happen is that you
split the pot (unless someone has KJ, but from the betting I would not
believe that).

Hand 2:

What are you afraid of at the river? Reraise. I am pretty sure Button
does not have a higher flush. A boat is also pretty unlikely. So why throw
away money?

tangential

[jakbse]

Think it was a girl actually, at least the avatar...

I have a similar hand.

Preflop:

Button appears to be pretty solid pre-flop. At the time I put him on a steal. But when I think about it BB is very loose (VPIP 55%) so maybe he wasn't.

Flop:
I bet out because I thought I had the best hand. When it was raised back to me I'm sure I'm behind. I'm getting 14:1 closing the action and with back door flush + discounted outs to 2 pair and 3 of a kind I think it was an ok call.

River:
Checked on the river with the intention of raising.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?</font>