Would someone explain razz to me in more detail?

[trumpman84]

It really seems like a dumb game.

It really seems to me that razz is 4 seperate games of "low card" with betting on each round.

Let's say I start out with [2 3] A and someone starts out with [8 6] 5 or some random hand. I am a 60-40 favorite at this point.

Now if I catch a bad card like a K and am showing A K, and he catches a good card like a 2, he is almost a 2 to 1 favorite now and he knows it, so he'll bet, not knowing or caring what I have in my hole. If I raise, he'll 3-bet because he knows there is no combination of cards I can have right now that are a favorite over his. Now on the next street, I catch good and he catches bad, he pair his 5 and I get a 7. Now I bet and jam the pot because I know there is no way he can be a favorite over me. It just goes on like this until maybe 7th street when there might be a slight doubt over your opponents hand though you probably still have a good idea what he was drawing for.

You really can't bluff unless your up cards are better than your opponent's in which case you are probably winning anyway, plus, your cards are out for the world to see so everyone knows what your best possible hand is...you can't represent a made 6 low when you have X X 6 2 Q T on 6th street. Your opponent knows the best hand you could possibly have with that board is 10 low with a six low draw as your best possible draw. So bluffing is almost non existant in this game.

If there was ever a game they could teach a bot how to play as good as a pro, I think this would be it, there'd be very few betting errors the bot could make until 7th street.

I don't know..it just seems you're playing a game where each person has all his cards flipped up and you bet accordingly...if I'm wrong or missing something about the game, please explain.

[Big Limpin']

All what you say is correct, i believe. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
But it is not a complete snapshot of what RAZZ is, [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Or where a winners profit is generated [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

First off, *you* make $$$ when *they* misplay hands. They miss a bet at you. Or they pay a bet they shouldnt. Over time this gives overlay to all 'your' pots that will amount to beating the game, hopefully beating the rake.

But see trumpman, you are only thinking in terms of heads up action. Razz, like *any* stud game, is driven by manipulating pot sizes when MULTIWAY. Heads up Razz would indeed be a "dumb game", at least between competant opponents. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

But when you get into fuller rings, with more pots 3,4,5+ handed on the "big bet" streets....its all about raising, trapping, checkraising, getting opponents to drop out of the pot...thats the real poker.

Oh yeah dude, this was too funny [ QUOTE ]
...you can't represent a made 6 low when you have X X 6 2 Q T on 6th street.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol
BL'

[Big Limpin']

oh i should say, alot of razz is guessing if that low card he spiked paired him or not. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Make an educated guess by how he plays his hand.

[beta1607]

lets say you have:
(23)7
vs.
(54)8
on 3rd you are a favorite
4th
(23)72
(54)8Q

He folds to your bet, it is called playing good poker. Your examples are far too over simplified.

[timprov]

HU Razz hands in a full ring game tend to be boring and fairly mechanical. Actual HU Razz is incredibly fun, because you're not always playing good hands and neither is your opponent.

There are definitely bluffing opportunities in Razz. They're just hard to see for someone without much experience. Outside of Razz, lowball experience is good, but non-lowball experience is essentially useless. (This is largely why there are more Razz players in Other Poker than here.)

In a good situation, Razz is the closest to a "pure" poker theory game as we have at the moment. A lot of people find it boring or incredibly frustrating because of this.

I highly recommend getting Sklansky on Poker for anyone; it's probably the 2+2 book that has helped my general poker game the most. And it will give you more insight into Razz.

If you play as if the cards are all up, then you are going to have problems. When I bet (XX)2 3 and you muck your (45)79, I might just show you my (KK)2 3