KK - was this weak?

[pete shaw]

Flop aggressor is L preflop, but has only bet strong holdings. I felt there was little chance I'm ahead.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (9 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero folds

Weak?

Thanks in advance [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Guruman]

yup. You can't autofold KK vs an Ace high flop here because there are waaay too many poor hands that loose players will bet into you with.

If villain held 78s, 89s, 67s, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 88, 77, K9, or any two clubs he could be betting into you here.

Raise this flop and call a threebet.

[pete shaw]

In 1.5 hrs I had seen her bet 1 time with less than top pair on the flop. That time it was four to the nut flush. And if that's the case here, I'm in a lot of trouble. But I am just getting my legs under me so, it probably was weak.

[Student Caine]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise this flop and call a threebet.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the absence of a strong read, what's our line on the turn and river? Are we calling all the way down? What if the turn or river are checked to us, we are betting correct (assuming that the three flush does not hit)?

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop aggressor is L preflop, but has only bet strong holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't autofold KK vs an Ace high flop here because there are waaay too many poor hands that loose players will bet into you with.

Raise this flop and call a threebet.

[/ QUOTE ]

that last sentence is especially bad.

fwiw i like the fold

Yes, too weak. I think this is a raise or fold situation, you just happened to pick the wrong one. Your raise is for 3 reasons:

1)SB may not have an ace, he could have a draw and wants to push it.
2)If he does have an ace, your raise could scare him enough that he eases up on the turn/river and you may get to a showdown cheaply. So your raise will help a ton to find out how much he really likes his hand.
3)Whatever happens to be true, you definitely want the players AFTER you to fold like cheap tents so you can focus on the SB.

Plus, say the SB flopped two pair, you still have a good number of outs in order to draw out against him. So, this is a raise or fold situation, and raising is the better option.

[ QUOTE ]
In 1.5 hrs I had seen her bet 1 time with less than top pair on the flop. That time it was four to the nut flush. And if that's the case here, I'm in a lot of trouble. But I am just getting my legs under me so, it probably was weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the use of gathering reads if we're afraid to use them b/c it's "weak". When a loose passive player (defined by PT stats alone) donks out to the PFR on an ace high flop it means he has an ace or better probably like 90% of the time.

And you have a stronger read on top of that. Maybe maybe he has a flush draw here. But a vast majority of the time he has an ace. So a fold is ok.

If you're going to continue I think you have to raise the flop. FWIW, though, I think calling a 3-bet or a turn donkbet is really really bad.

EDIT: didn't notice there were two players left to act. I think this makes it more correct to fold.

I fold. But I am the worst KK player evar.

[Yerma]

If you felt it was the right thing to do against this player, especially with players to act behind...well, it wasn't "weak" this time.

I'd trust my read and fold, especially so since there are two to act.