top pair mid kicker, getting action

coinflip · #1 02-21-2005, 10:03 PM

BB is 17/7/1.5, [EDIT] MP1 is 11/5/3.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

First decision here was 3-bet or fold. I was all set to bet/raise until it's 2 bets to me cold, but with the possible flush draw out I decide that folding is too weak and go for a 3-bet.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

I'm reading the stop-and-go as a top pair type hand that wanted to wait for a safe turn card. Problem is, without top kicker I'm not sure if I should raise or just call. I winp out, but does anyone prefer a raise here?

River: (10.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

krishanleong · #2 02-21-2005, 10:07 PM

I play it the same way and read him for a Q as well. If I had no kicker it would be an easy fold. Better players than I may find a raise.

Krishan

brettbrettr · #3 02-21-2005, 10:08 PM

Given MP3's rockishness (I'm assuming this is over a decent number of hands) I think a flop fold is prudent. The pot is unraised/small etc.

coinflip · #4 02-21-2005, 10:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given MP3's rockishness (I'm assuming this is over a decent number of hands) I think a flop fold is prudent. The pot is unraised/small etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I meant MP1 in my reads (and I assume you do too, since MP3 is not in the hand). You did notice his AF is 3 postflop, right?

Harv72b · #5 02-21-2005, 10:41 PM

I figured you meant MP1 in the read.

The problem is that while his postflop AF indicates that he will play a lot of hands (including ones you beat or chop with) very aggressively, his PFR% indicates that he may well have limped KQo in this hand, and his VPIP makes it unlikely that he played QJo (let alone QT or lower) from MP1. So his stop & go could indicate top pair (likely with a better kicker) or a flopped set (I would tend towards that read more than KQ).

This is all assuming you have enough hands to form a solid read on MP1. Can you fold based on this, regardless? Probably not...although I wouldn't have been overly critical of you if you had folded the river.

stanky · #6 02-21-2005, 10:54 PM

Looking at his numbers particularly VP$IP (11) I don't see him limping with Q10s or worse so I play it the same on the turn. I would guess QJ or KQ or AQ.

-Pete

coinflip · #7 02-22-2005, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would guess QJ or KQ or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This went through my head as well, but I was also thinking that most of those (AQ/KQ) are hands that would typically be raised preflop. I was concerned that my turn call might have been too weak given villain's AF.

Anyhow, results:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Ts Qd (one pair, queens, ten kicker).
Hero has Js Qc (one pair, queens, jack kicker).
Outcome: Hero wins 12.50 BB.