2 bets to me on the turn with a set of jacks, and I'm confused.

uw_madtown · #1 01-22-2005, 07:56 PM

Both players had only been at the table for an orbit and had not stood out in any significant way.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 3-bets, CO folds, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP3 raises, Hero...

The limp-reraise threw me, obviously. Worse yet, I'm murdered on the turn to either AA or QQ, and behind KT. On the other hand, if none of those hands are out, then I've got a lock on the hand. The limp-reraise combined with the turn action just made me feel totally lost, to the point where I actively considered all three options (raising, calling, and folding).

Does anyone NOT cap preflop?

deadmunny · #2 01-22-2005, 08:34 PM

In my non-expert opinion I would NOT cap pre-flop (Im probably wrong) with JJ, if you dont hit your set then you are completely dominated if an A,K or Q flops... That said post flop?....MP3 being "smart" with AA? or because of the turn action A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]? whichever I would (rightly or wrongly) just call the raise on the turn.... How did it turn out?

limitholdemshark · #3 01-22-2005, 08:59 PM

i would not have capped.why give ur opps. the info that ur better than just a plain old button raise.and u arent going 2 knock anyone out with the cap.preflop sit in the bushes so u can c the natural progression of the hand on the flop .now,on the flop i would ram and jam 2 the moon.on the turn likewise unless u c monsters lurking under ur bed.on the river if u do not fill up then just call any bet and check if its checked 2 you.sometimes u(unless a real scare card hits the river and the action gets hot and heavy then u can fold) have 2 pay dearly when ur set gets beat but u need 2 maximise ur winning on all the other times u r the winner.

good luck

the shark

uw_madtown · #4 01-22-2005, 09:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In my non-expert opinion I would NOT cap pre-flop (Im probably wrong) with JJ, if you dont hit your set then you are completely dominated if an A,K or Q flops...

[/ QUOTE ]

I capped mostly because I had position. Capping will give me information based on how they react to a capper depending on the flop. I think just calling PF would make it more difficult to get a read on them on the flop.

I think it's highly debatable, and I definitely don't make this cap without being in position.

[ QUOTE ]
How did it turn out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Going to wait to get some more responses on the turn action (mostly -- preflop comments are good too) before getting comments on the river action, and then later still I'll post results.

bakku · #5 01-22-2005, 09:32 PM

I like the PF cap, I'd 3-bet the turn.

Luv2DriveTT · #6 01-22-2005, 09:37 PM

Cap pre-flop. There are only 3 hands with better pre-flop equity, establish yourself as the leader pre-flop.

3-bet the turn. Call down the river if it bet. Villian could have hands like AA, AK, QQ, 55, etc. My guess would be AK.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

jonahmavesin · #7 01-22-2005, 10:04 PM

The other reason to cap pre-flop is to try and knock SB off the hand for 2 more bets. Didn't work obviously. But I like it.

Flop is well played, obviously.

Turn is a head-scratcher. I'd put either of them on AK easily, or AQ. I don't see how either would have KK, unfortunately. And of course QQ and AA are definite possibilities for MPwhatever. I can definitely see the arguments in all directions, as you say. Very interesting.

In heat of the moment, I would think that there are a lot of 2-pairs that could be out, as well as AK for either or both, and so I'd raise. But I'd get a little nauseous doing so. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

PhatPots · #8 01-22-2005, 10:12 PM

I would capp that preflop 100% of the time! To not is crazy. Especially with so many opponents in the pot. Make all those other players call 2 extra bets. Phatten the pot! I might be a bit worried because it is a limp reraise. But you have a lot of callers. You are justified. You do not fold that. I would never be able to fold that turn. I would have to pay him off if he has AA. I say you should call it down.

Cheers,
Pots

uw_madtown · #9 01-22-2005, 10:46 PM

Looks like the consensus is that the pre-flop cap was fine, with mixed opinions on the turn, leaning towards reraising.

I just called the turn.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 3-bets, CO folds, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (18.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, MP3 checks, Hero...

On the one hand, they both checked to me. On the other... now TT, QQ, KK, AA, any loose ten or any two spades have me beat. Bet, or check behind? What's your move if you bet and are check-raised? Does it matter who check-raises you, SB or MP3?

wjmooner · #10 01-22-2005, 11:09 PM

check behind, if sb is on a flush draw or has a ten he goes for the check-raise here since he got raised on the turn. You might get called by a worse two pair, but no better hand is folding, and you don't want to have to face a check-raise on the river (even though it seems like you could fold safely to a check-raise, but you want to show down the set).

WJ