Commerce 9/18 super passive AKo

gh9801 · #1 10-07-2005, 03:20 AM

7 limpers, SB completes, Hero checks in BB with AdKx.

Flop QJ3 two diamonds.

Checked around.

Turn 5x

UTG+1 bets (read: fish), 4 calls (all 4 callers are fish) I call.

River Ks

I check...

hobbsmann · #2 10-07-2005, 03:25 AM

while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

newhizzle · #3 10-07-2005, 03:30 AM

raise preflop, although there are arguments for checking, im raising a hand as strong as AK

after that i lead flop, c/c turn and bet river

if i somehow cleared the field down to like 2ish opponents on flop, then im probably betting turn too

gh9801 · #4 10-07-2005, 03:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and river were my questions, yes.

Preflop: If I raise and hit the flop and bet out, any pair hand, any draw hand, and hand with outs against me will call. Is there relaly a value raise here with AKo?

River: I have no idea what anyone has, especially UTG+2. Maybe bet/fold is best, but the pot is huge.

gh9801 · #5 10-07-2005, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop, although there are arguments for checking, im raising a hand as strong as AK

after that i lead flop, c/c turn and bet river

if i somehow cleared the field down to like 2ish opponents on flop, then im probably betting turn too

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise preflop, yes the hand plays very differnetly. I don't think AKo is strong at all against the entire table, and out of position. I have absolutely no FE, and often times one pair will not be good enough. I'd gladly raise here if only 4-5 people were in the pot, but with the entire table...

hobbsmann · #6 10-07-2005, 03:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and river were my questions, yes.

Preflop: If I raise and hit the flop and bet out, any pair hand, any draw hand, and hand with outs against me will call. Is there relaly a value raise here with AKo?

River: I have no idea what anyone has, especially UTG+2. Maybe bet/fold is best, but the pot is huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, especially in the Commerce games, your equity is MUCH greater than 1/9 so you need to exploit this edge when it is presented to you. The pot will end up huge, but your hand will win more than it's fair share and those times huge pots. Not raising here against bad players is pretty horrible IMO.

As far as the river goes you should bet and evaluate. If the action goes bet, call, raise, cold call then folding can be an option but my standard line would be to bet/call this river and expect to be good a lot.

gh9801 · #7 10-07-2005, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and river were my questions, yes.

Preflop: If I raise and hit the flop and bet out, any pair hand, any draw hand, and hand with outs against me will call. Is there relaly a value raise here with AKo?

River: I have no idea what anyone has, especially UTG+2. Maybe bet/fold is best, but the pot is huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, especially in the Commerce games, your equity is MUCH greater than 1/9 so you need to exploit this edge when it is presented to you. The pot will end up huge, but your hand will win more than it's fair share and those times huge pots. Not raising here against bad players is pretty horrible IMO.

As far as the river goes you should bet and evaluate. If the action goes bet, call, raise, cold call then folding can be an option but my standard line would be to bet/call this river and expect to be good a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, preflop makes sense. I'm not used to such loose games. River I'd much rather bet/fold than bet/call though because when any of thoes fish raise they have a hand. Especially on the river.

newhizzle · #8 10-07-2005, 03:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and river were my questions, yes.

Preflop: If I raise and hit the flop and bet out, any pair hand, any draw hand, and hand with outs against me will call. Is there relaly a value raise here with AKo?

River: I have no idea what anyone has, especially UTG+2. Maybe bet/fold is best, but the pot is huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think preflop is very close, im checking AQo here, also if i didnt raise PF i think the flop check is fine

private joker · #9 10-07-2005, 03:45 AM

Bet/fold the river. In all my sessions at the 9/18, I've never seen anyone bluff-raise a river in a 5-handed pot.

hobbsmann · #10 10-07-2005, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
while there are a ton of limpers raising this preflop for value needs to happen. There are enough limpers anyway that the pot is going to be semi-big anyway so there is really no benifit in checking this in the BB IMO.

Aside from that I think you played this hand well postflop except you also need to bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop and river were my questions, yes.

Preflop: If I raise and hit the flop and bet out, any pair hand, any draw hand, and hand with outs against me will call. Is there relaly a value raise here with AKo?

River: I have no idea what anyone has, especially UTG+2. Maybe bet/fold is best, but the pot is huge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, especially in the Commerce games, your equity is MUCH greater than 1/9 so you need to exploit this edge when it is presented to you. The pot will end up huge, but your hand will win more than it's fair share and those times huge pots. Not raising here against bad players is pretty horrible IMO.

As far as the river goes you should bet and evaluate. If the action goes bet, call, raise, cold call then folding can be an option but my standard line would be to bet/call this river and expect to be good a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, preflop makes sense. I'm not used to such loose games. River I'd much rather bet/fold than bet/call though because when any of thoes fish raise they have a hand. Especially on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the river will be dependent on how many players are involved if/when it gets raised. If it goes bet and one guy raises and everybody else folds I call and will expect (obviously read dependent, but I'll go off the general Commerce player) to be good enough given how large the pot has become already. Bet/folding is probably the best line in a protected pot, but I still wouldn't be comfortable folding TPTK here.