Small pocket pair blind defense - how is my line?

[Nick Royale]

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I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

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Villain can have anything at this point. Many TAGs will fire two bullets after raising preflop here with any two. The way the hand was played he could have 7 high, ace high, or quads. Often times I would be ahead the entire way agianst ace high and on this type of board, the way I played the hand, ace high will rarely fold. I think a value bet is necessary here.

After the river c/r now I have no idea what is right or what I should have done.

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I agree his range is wide, but we need to estimate how often we'll get called by a worse hand. I don't think this is a value bet and I think a fold to a check/raise is pretty easy against a tag. You definately should not bet this river if you can't fold to a c/r imo.

[gh9801]

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I'd like to hear thoughts on the river bet. Are we getting called by ace high on this board?

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Villain can have anything at this point. Many TAGs will fire two bullets after raising preflop here with any two. The way the hand was played he could have 7 high, ace high, or quads. Often times I would be ahead the entire way agianst ace high and on this type of board, the way I played the hand, ace high will rarely fold. I think a value bet is necessary here.

After the river c/r now I have no idea what is right or what I should have done.

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I agree his range is wide, but we need to estimate how often we'll get called by a worse hand. I don't think this is a value bet and I think a fold to a check/raise is pretty easy against a tag. You definately should not bet this river if you can't fold to a c/r imo.

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You're probably right. This c/r is an easy fold even despite my passive play throughout the hand. I just figured that since my hand was played so weakly, villain can be c/ring here with a wider range of hands, like maybe ace high. But probably not.

I'm starting to favor checking behind. Betting makes less sense. I'm not even sure how often I'll see ace high in this spot, paying me off. Q high or worse probably won't pay me off. More often any action I get is a better boat. I'm not gaining much value by B/f-ing

[gh9801]

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As said this would be a good line if you're worried your opponent might 3-bet the flop with air, since he's much less likely to 3-bet the turn with nothing. If you think your opponent is capable of folding a low pair to a turn raise this line gain even more value. I definately like this line better than calling down in any case. It will cost the same as calling down and most often we'll just be folding 2 outs the few times we're getting 3-betted on the turn, in contrast to our opponent who are folding at least 6 outs to our raise (EDIT: 6 outs in general, in this case 12 outs as Nick C pointed out). Also this line will most often end up in a sd. You shouldn't use this line against a maniac or one of these types of players who goes beserk in blind battles, since we might be folding the best hand. Players aggressive enough to 3-bet the turn with nothing are pretty rare though.

At least that's a line I take to mix it up against some players, and I think it's good.


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I like this line better too. Thanks

[Nick Royale]

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Sometimes I feel I have to not raise the flop to avoid getting threebet on the flop with air and outplayed by ace high. I feel like my pair is very likely good, but sometimes I just want to trade some value for perhaps a cheaper showdown. Good? bad? How often should I be mixing it up, if ever?

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I think the line you took is all right.

If you're ahead on the turn, Villain will usually have 12 or more outs, and I think raising there, hoping to get J6o to make an incorrect fold, has its merits. But the pot is small, and I don't think it's crucial to put up a big fight.

On the flop, if you're ahead, just calling and encouraging Villain to fire again on the turn with a 6-outer does have its advantages, in this small pot.

Anyway, I don't think you should do the same thing every time, but the line you took seems to me like one that's worth including in your repertoire.

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I agree and I see your points, but I think we need a plan when we make this flop call since we can expect him to fire on the turn very often.

I don't like calling on the flop with the intention of calling down or folding to a turn bet. "I don't think it's crucial to put up a big fight", I agree but if we're planning to play this hand on the flop (which we obviously do since we called preflop) we need to planning to go to war somewhere in the hand, either on the flop or turn. I think a turnraise is superior to anything else if we call the flop. We're charging a draw if ahead, fold very few outs if 3-betted, still have a good chance of being ahead, have decent odds of folding a better hand and pay the same as calling down.

So if we're planning to go to a sd we need to raise somewhere. And I need to have a good read to lay this hand down to a bet anywhere without having shown any aggression myself.

We decided to play this hand by calling preflop (and no I'm not questioning the preflop call). We knew the pot would be small so an argument like "But the pot is small, and I don't think it's crucial to put up a big fight" doesn't fit.

[Nick C]

I just read what Nick Royale wrote and have decided I like the flop call better than the turn call.

On the turn, I prefer the free-showdown raise he talked about (unless facing a maniac or a hyper-aggro blind-vs.-blind player).

I will say this, though: There are some players who will fire on all three postflop streets with air after raising preflop, and against those players I think calling down the whole way with pocket 2's is an acceptable line.

[Nick Royale]

Re-reading the hand I think a river bet might be justified (I'm still not paying of a check/raise). But it depends much on what reads he have on you and how solid your read is. If you think you're unknown to him he's more likely to pay off with A-high and he rarely has you beat since he's likely to bet all PPs on the river. It's a tricky situation, but most often I think I'm checking.

[Nick C]

FWIW, I wasn't recommending a turn fold at all. The board would have to be a lot scarier for me to want to fold my pocket 2's to what could easily just be another auto-bet.

I think I prefer your turn raise to a call, though.

There are a couple of exceptions. The one you've mentioned already is that we don't want to be taking a raise-fold line against a blind-battle spewer. Another potential exception, I think, occurs when we're facing someone who will fire the whole way with whatever he raised with preflop. Against that player, I think simply calling down has its merits.

Unfortunately, in practice, my reads aren't usually precise enough for me to know exactly how my opponent handles blind battles, so some guesswork is involved there.

[Nick Royale]

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I just read what Nick Royale wrote and have decided I like the flop call better than the turn call.

On the turn, I prefer the free-showdown raise he talked about (unless facing a maniac or a hyper-aggro blind-vs.-blind player).

I will say this, though: There are some players who will fire on all three postflop streets with air after raising preflop, and against those players I think calling down the whole way with pocket 2's is an acceptable line.

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Yeah, I think we're on the same page here. When thinking about it i might start use this line as a standard line from now on, of course mixing it up pretty good, but I think call flop/raise turn is best against many players (especially players capable of folding low pairs).

[Nick Royale]

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Another potential exception, I think, occurs when we're facing someone who will fire the whole way with whatever he raised with preflop. Against that player, I think simply calling down has its merits.

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Agree, these players are also rare to be making incorrect laydowns when we raise the turn so just calling down against them would be better.