Poker Etiquette by Phil Hellmuth

[SpeakEasy]

When you have AK and someone goes all in against you with KJ, don't berate the KJ-player. You WANT them to do this, time and again.

This is like a cash game player yelling at the newbies for playing bad cards when the newbies get lucky. You WANT them to overplay the bad cards.

I would assume that all of the top 10 players in the world know this.

Sheesh.

[TruePoker CEO]

I agree this is an exceptionally well written, informative post. I agree he is incredibly talented and your analysis is interesting food for thought.

My only critique is the overstatement: "No other player suffers as much detriment by getting busted as he does."

I understand the explanation that follows, but it is still an overstatement because it is post-hoc. First, busted = dead, and dead is dead, regardless of who you are. You are comparing two dead guys. Yeah, Phil or any pro suffers more of an opportunity cost by busting out than does some guy with no name value to protect or incremental earnings expectation. But, if the perspective is one tournament, then all players are equal, paying the same entry to win the same prize pool or dying the same death.

Moreover, Phil mitigates some of that loss by ranting/raving and keeping his name and mug on camera.

Truepoker CEO

[JJNJustin]

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My only critique is the overstatement: "No other player suffers as much detriment by getting busted as he does."



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I didnt really know how to write what I meant in one sentence. What I meant is that, with his enormous edge over other players, the risk of getting busted does not have the same value as it does for poorer players. For example, if I am a terrible player and would probably lose anyway, then going all in as a coin flop or small favorite in an attempt to increase my chip stack and increase my chance at cashing would probably not be a bad gamble. But to an incredibly talented player like Phil, taking a chance of getting busted out as a small favorite with the only reward being doubling an already large stack with the risk of losing the opportunity to make much profitable and better decisions later is more detrimental. As long as Phil is in the game, he is dangerous and has the ability and potential to win it all.

As a metaphor, giving illegal stimulant drugs to a bad racehorse who probably wouldnt come in the money without the drugs when the only penalty upon being caught is disqualification (even if there is a decent chance of disqualification) is probably a worthwhile gamble with little to lose, whereas as giving the same illegal drugs to a racehorse who has a much greater chance to win the race without the drugs is probably a horrible gamble with everything to lose.

Does that clarify what I meant?

[Steve Chase]

Good point.
When my AK lost to KJ, I always say: Nice Hand.
I want the Donkey feels good about it and do it again and again.

You are a good player because there are bad players.
If there is no bad players, how do you know you are good.

The problem with Phil is: he likes to show off. He always want to people know he is the best. When Phil plays, he does not focus on play his best games and get more chips. He focues on showing his skills on TV. That hurts his play.

[JJNJustin]

I didnt mean to hijack the original thread... I copied and editted my response and reposted it under On Phil (H

peace

-J

[Jive Dadson]

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Was Phil correct when he said is was poor etiquette for a player to ask to his cards when he had just showed them to the player next to him. Isn't it 1 see all see???

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Phil Hellmuth is expounding on etiquette? That's a joke, right?

[tonypaladino]

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Was Phil correct when he said is was poor etiquette for a player to ask to his cards when he had just showed them to the player next to him. Isn't it 1 see all see???

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He was not correct. The rule is that if you show your cards to one player, you have to show them to the table. Otherwise you are giving that one player information that is not available to everyone else.

And Phil knows the rules better than anyone else at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you understand the difference between rules and etiquette?

It is also within the rules to keep asking to see a mucked hand at showdown in a cash game. Doesn't mean you should do it.

honestly, if it was Phil Helmuth, I might just have to insist upon seeing the hand, because the words "bad etiquette" coming out of his mouth may just be the biggest combination of irony, redundancy, and humor ever packed into a two-word phrase.

[MeanGreenTT]

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Was Phil correct when he said is was poor etiquette for a player to ask to his cards when he had just showed them to the player next to him. Isn't it 1 see all see???

[/ QUOTE ]

He was not correct. The rule is that if you show your cards to one player, you have to show them to the table. Otherwise you are giving that one player information that is not available to everyone else.

And Phil knows the rules better than anyone else at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you understand the difference between rules and etiquette?

It is also within the rules to keep asking to see a mucked hand at showdown in a cash game. Doesn't mean you should do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

STILL not bad etiquette regardless of how condescending the question is posed. What Phil did was bad etiquette, such an ass.

[B Dids]

Post the same question in the B&M forum and look at the responses you get.

100% bad etiquette. Doesn't mean Phil's not a dick, and didn't go about telling the guy that in the worst possible way, but it's something that absolutely is frowned upon.