Raise preflop and fold to the first bet - 2 hands

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Hand 1:
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (7.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB


Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

[shadow29]

#1. Bet the flop.

#2. Raise the flop.

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

With one overcard, or with &lt;=2 opponents, this is my standard line. But given the texture of the board I was not about to invest any more money in either of these pots.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts, maybe this is just the weak-tightie in me rearing its head.

[Icebee]

I don't see how you don't bet the flop on hand 1.

Hand 2: I think you're behind and drawing light. I like the fold personally but I fall into weak-tight from time to time myself.

[shadow29]

I just don't see how you're that far behind on the flop in #2. You have a redraw to the nut straight and no one has shown aggression thus far. 3/4 limpers have checked, MP1 looks like he's taking a shot at the pot, hoping that no one else picked anything up. If you raise and he has a K or Q you're likely to get a free showdown UI.

I think that you have to raise here.

[Bez]

I'd bet hand 1 but agree with the fold on hand 2. You're probably behind with few redraws considering your pre-flop raise.

[Icebee]

You very well could be right.

I agree if you plan on continuing here you have to raise. I don't know how much credit I give that backdoor straight. I think most of the time to win this pot you're going to have to spike a jack.

[SlantNGo]

[ QUOTE ]
#1. Bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[ QUOTE ]
#2. Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

VERY read-dependent IMO. This board is quite uncoordinated, and the only strong draw out there is JT. So if you have a read that MP1 will bet to try to take down the pot, or that he will bet with bottom pair, raise it. I think you're up against a K or Q here too often to justify continuing in this pot however.

[shadow29]

But the problem is you just don't know if you're up against a K or Q. You have to raise here to find out!

[JudgeRW]

Hand 1: You simply have to bet that flop.

Hand 2: good fold. You are behind often enough to make this -EV in my opinion. A bet saved is a bet earned.