Who was the worst player at the WSOP final table

betgo · #1 10-03-2004, 08:51 AM

The top 4 were clearly good players. No comment is needed on Harrington. Arieh is well established and obviously played well. Raymer was somewhat established and was very impressive. Williams and Arieh removed any doubt about their abilities by both finishing in the top 3 in Connecticut.

Krux has 2 other WSOP ME final table finishes. The CardPlayer article by Glazer was very unflaterring to Matt Dean. Hughes, Anderson, McClain, and Dean are the most unproven of the bunch. Are any of them fishes?

Equal · #2 10-03-2004, 09:10 AM

Heh, interesting topic... I will be watching this thread like a hawk.

TheRiverKnows · #3 10-03-2004, 01:07 PM

Probably not Mcclain just cause he's a pro.

Tyler Durden · #4 10-03-2004, 01:53 PM

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Williams and Arieh removed any doubt about their abilities by both finishing in the top 3 in Connecticut.

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Atlantic City ain't in Connecticut. I think it's in Nebraska.

deuces09 · #5 10-03-2004, 01:59 PM

Dean. He's only played poker for a year.

His all-in call with jacks preflop with an incredibly deep stack against Murphy's AK was a terrible move. That said, Murphy made an equally stupid play with AK, but the call with JJ was just mind-numbingly bad.

That, and the fact he started the final table 2nd in chips and finished 7th. He was out of his league.

The only other guys I could make arguments for would be Mattias Andersson (youth clouded by acting like a jackass) and Glen Hughes (but only because I've never heard of the guy before, so who knows)

Kevmath · #6 10-03-2004, 02:52 PM

Glenn Hughes record can be found at: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/play...a=r&n=9855

For what it's worth, here's my ranking of the final table:

1. Harrington
2. Arieh
3. Raymer
4. Krux
5. Hughes
6. McClain
7. Wiliams
8. Dean
9. Andersson

Kevin...

slickpoppa · #7 10-03-2004, 03:06 PM

You cannot say that Murphy's bet all-in with AK was equally stupid to a call with JJ.
Since he had an A and a K, the chances of someone else having AA or KK are very low. So at worst, he is a slight underdog to a hand like JJ. By BETTING all-in, he forces someone with a medium pocket pair to make a very tough decision becuase they are at best a slight favorite, but possibly a big underdog to AA or KK. He probably figured that even if someone did have a lower pcket pair, they would not risk their entire stack and a chance to be at the final table on a coin flip.
If you honestly think that calling all-in with JJ is the same as betting all-in with AK, then you are a bad poker player.

Matt24 · #8 10-03-2004, 03:08 PM

I'd say Dean because it seemed like he was trying to give his chips away.

deuces09 · #9 10-03-2004, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You cannot say that Murphy's bet all-in with AK was equally stupid to a call with JJ.
Since he had an A and a K, the chances of someone else having AA or KK are very low. So at worst, he is a slight underdog to a hand like JJ. By BETTING all-in, he forces someone with a medium pocket pair to make a very tough decision becuase they are at best a slight favorite, but possibly a big underdog to AA or KK.

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This part, I agree with.

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He probably figured that even if someone did have a lower pcket pair, they would not risk their entire stack and a chance to be at the final table on a coin flip.

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Here's the strength of my argument. He figured wrong! Murphy failed to make a good enough read that Dean would be capable of folding a smaller pocket pair than KK in that situation. If you can't make that read, you shouldn't make a move with AK. Consequently, failing to make this read results in a coinflip scenario for your tournament life, which is stupid given Murphy was doing a good job chipping away at other stacks.

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If you honestly think that calling all-in with JJ is the same as betting all-in with AK, then you are a bad poker player.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Paul Phillips · #10 10-03-2004, 03:59 PM

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If you honestly think that calling all-in with JJ is the same as betting all-in with AK, then you are a bad poker player.

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That brings to mind an AK vs. JJ story.

At the borgata in 2003 I played the $500 buyin event the day before the WPT tournament. With about 80-85% of the field gone I was one of the chip leaders with about 65K. The only guy at my table who was even close had 60K.

I made a standard opening raise to 4000 (The big blind was probably 1500) in late position with JJ. He moves in for 60K in the small blind.

Conventional wisdom would tell you that you should never call here. But having played with him for hours, I felt with close to moral certainty the only hand this guy would play that way was AK. Now some people would say you shouldn't call here with JJ even if he shows you AK, but me? I'm not passing a 57% advantage on purpose. I called.

Flop a K, river a J. I felt bad because the guy started lightly celebrating before the river rolled off, which always makes the blow more crushing. I ending up winning that tournament. Ignoring the result though, who do you think played that hand well? Both of us, one, or neither? I don't think murphy's play with AK is necessarily good (or bad) and I don't think dean's call with JJ is necessarily bad (or good).

Also, I used to think having AK lowered the likelihood of the other guy having KK or AA to an acceptable level because it had almost never happened to me. Then I was busted out of about five tournaments in a month with AK running into one of those hands. And more recently...

At the bicycle club WPT event this year I was rolling, up to 260K with blinds only 2K-4K. I opened a pot for 12K with AK and chris ferguson re-raised me to 30K. He only had 130K total so I idiotically ignored the warning bells and said to myself "what's the worst that can happen, half your stack?" So I moved all in and he called with AA. Down to 130K.

The VERY NEXT hand I opened for 12K with AK again. Now a guy who has me covered puts in a HUGE re-raise to 60K. This kind of thing can really mess with your head. A couple moments ago I was one of the top ten in chips and now am I about to go broke? I finally folded AK face up. He showed me AA! If he'd put in a smaller re-raise would I have fired it in? It's frighteningly possible.

I think a lot harder about the value of AK these days than I once did but there's always plenty of room to improve. I took 7th in that event but who knows how much better I might have finished if I had saved some chips against jesus.