NYC - BPC Club raided

The end result will be the destruction of the NYC poker community as it now exists...feel free to continue to bob and weave and ignore the fact that what we are doing is NOT illegal...there is no house advantage as noted in the law.
One way or the other if people don't care enough to stand up for themselves then this will be an ongoing issue as a bully (the city, NYPD) loves nothing more than weakness. The main issue to me, even moreso than the legality of the clubs is the legality of the police stealing (yes - stealing) the players money. If no arrests of players are made then why take their money? By not arresting them then you are saying what they are doing is legal. By saying they are doing something legal you are saying that their money is NOT evidence of crime...

every summons should have had a voucher for YOUR 300 with it. Only the 30 entry belonged to the club...ther rest is your money.
Call the 72nd PCT, Brooklyn South Vice, or CCRB (either google it or look below) and ask for a voucher for your money

[cokehead]

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The end result will be the destruction of the NYC poker community as it now exists...feel free to continue to bob and weave and ignore the fact that what we are doing is NOT illegal...there is no house advantage as noted in the law.
One way or the other if people don't care enough to stand up for themselves then this will be an ongoing issue as a bully (the city, NYPD) loves nothing more than weakness. The main issue to me, even moreso than the legality of the clubs is the legality of the police stealing (yes - stealing) the players money. If no arrests of players are made then why take their money? By not arresting them then you are saying what they are doing is legal. By saying they are doing something legal you are saying that their money is NOT evidence of crime...

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I really hope you didn't pay for your legal education because if you did you seriously got ripped off. Have you even bothered to attempt to read the laws you claim to know so much about?

[TM1212]

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It'll stop when sensible laws are made.... which will be never, because the government makes too much money from seizures and fines.

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This is a retarded post with complete bs claims.

They would make much more by taxing the [censored] out of the cardrooms, then the pennys they make off the tourts and fines

[satelliter]

Careful whom you call idiot. A 4 year old can beat the best backgammon player in the world in one game, but that did not stop the New York State courts from deciding that betting on backgammon is NOT illegal gambling under the NYS constitution. The issue is whether the game is PREDOMINANTLY one of skill or luck, and if New York follows California, poker will be ruled a game of skill--predominantly, not completely.

Reading the on-line version of the NYS Constitution linked above, I find no definition of gambling. New York courts have properly defined gambling quite narrowly to limit this paternalistic and invasive provision which probably had a religious origin. Any activity, enjoyable or otherwise, especially involving spending money, can be addictive and might be harmful to many members of society, but that by itself is no reason to deny it to informed adults. Might as well ban television.

[cokehead]

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but that did not stop the New York State courts from deciding that betting on backgammon is NOT illegal gambling under the NYS constitution.

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citation please?

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The issue is whether the game is PREDOMINANTLY one of skill or luck

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Where in NEW YORK law is this distinction made?

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Reading the on-line version of the NYS Constitution linked above, I find no definition of gambling.

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Gambling is defined in the NY Penal Code.
NY CLS Penal § 225.00 states: "Gambling." A person engages in gambling when he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.

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New York courts have properly defined gambling quite narrowly to limit this paternalistic and invasive provision which probably had a religious origin.

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Huh? citation?

I am going to assume you cannot give a citation for any of this, so I will provide one, PEOPLE v. DUBINSKY 31 N.Y.S.2d 234, which states in part:

In answering the questions raised by the defendant as to whether or not the defendant violated Section 973 of the Penal Law, viz., did he keep a room used for gambling, we must necessarily first determine whether gambling took place in the room in question. There is no doubt that to the description of this playing 'stud' poker for money is a game of chance and constitutes gambling. People v. Sergeant, 8 Cow. 139. 'Any [**4] game of cards for stakes is technically gambling.' In re Fischer, 231 App.Div. 193, 247 N.Y.S. 168, 178.

So the courts have ruled on this issue and have ruled specifically that poker is gambling. Well I guess they only specified stud poker, so maybe hold 'em isn't gambling (s/w).

[mmcd]

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There was NO searchwarrant...they claimed they had probable cause and they DID come in guns waving and claim that they were going to "blow peoples heads off"


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If this is really the case, then the search was almost certainly illegal. Get a decent lawyer and you can get the whole thing tossed.

In the future find out who you need to pay and pay them. I'm sure there is somebody that has some level of control over these matters that has their hand out.

[MRBAA]

Feeling a bit absurd debating a sober legal manner with a poster named "cokehead" I will nonetheless say that the precedent cited does cut to the core of the matter. Poker is a funny game -- it's clearly a gambling game, yet it is also clearly a game of skill. So court's have trouble deciding whether cardrooms should be treated like game clubs, and be legal, or like casinos, and be banned. In California, for many years some poker forms were legal and others were not.I think the bike et al could spread draw but not hold'em, Eventually, the laws caught up with reality, and all poker games were allowed. These days, card rooms seem to be all over in CA, and it seems to be no big deal.

[cokehead]

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Feeling a bit absurd debating a sober legal manner with a poster named "cokehead"

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I am addicted to Coca-Cola, not cocaine [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[SA125]

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It'll stop when sensible laws are made.... which will be never, because the government makes too much money from seizures and fines.

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Gambling in NYC will become legal when 2 things happen. The frist I could see happening and it's when the politicians realize they can somehow make more money from having it here than they're making from guys like Trump, who line their pockets to keep the buses flowing out of here to his casino's in AC. The second is a little tougher. It's when the politicians figure out how to make a lot of money from it for themselves.

It took a long time to get cable TV in NYC for the exact reason. It wasn't until Percy Sutton's company, of which David Dinkins and other big names were major shareholders, got a major slice of the monopoly pie for themselves and therefore the votes to pass it. When it comes to changing laws where lots of money will be made, it always comes back to how much the politicians and their friends will make from it. Just look at the West Side Stadium deal.