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#11
07-05-2005, 01:03 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
[ QUOTE ]
since you've loosened up (as you noted) preflop with a call, you might as well loosen up on the river too and call with your ass-end straight. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not really on board with this logic, though I do think the river was worth a crying call. There were conditions preflop that made loosening up a decent move (position and callers); I'm guessing you know this, but just won't let go of the preflop limp. Whatever. That has nothing to do with the river call. Flop fold would have been ok, but I don't hate the call either. Boz's suggestion to raise the turn is a good one, helps me to figure out what's up on the river. Still would have been a tough call on the river after calling a turn 3-bet, maybe even a fold. I love talking about how much I suck at poker. 
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#12
07-05-2005, 01:11 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
[ QUOTE ]
Boz's suggestion to raise the turn is a good one, helps me to figure out what's up on the river. Still would have been a tough call on the river after calling a turn 3-bet, maybe even a fold. [/ QUOTE ] I think if you are going to raise the turn you should really consider folding to a 3-bet.
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#13
07-05-2005, 01:14 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
[ QUOTE ]
There were conditions preflop that made loosening up a decent move (position and callers); I'm guessing you know this, but just won't let go of the preflop limp. [/ QUOTE ] I don't agree with this statement... more callers is not what you want with this hand, it performs better with fewer players as it really only has marginal high card strength and moderate connectivity. It's a great hand against 1 player, decent against 2, but with more limpers it becomes pretty terrible.
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#14
07-05-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
What about raising the flop? This gives Kx and Ax a chance to fold (I know they folded anyway, but you didn't know that when you made your call). It could also get you a free card, potentially. If you get 3-bet, I'd call down if I hit the straight with a non-diamond, or else fold.
On the turn, the way the hand went down, I think I would fold. Even though you "improved" to TP, I wouldn't make an overcall here, and too many outs are tainted to raise. The Q really put you in a tough spot.
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#15
07-05-2005, 01:21 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
Everyone is saying the preflop call sucks. I think it's certainly marginal, but not as bad as everyone seems to think. I generally don't make this call myself, but will call QTo. Overall, I think this preflop call is slightly profitable to slightly unprofitable depending on how yr postflop game is compared to that of yr opponents. (Personally I like a bigger preflop edge.)
I'm torn between raising and calling this flop. It depends on the table. It's impossible for me to say which I think is correct since you did not present any reads. With no reads I lean towards calling and hope it is not raised behind me. On the turn I think is where you should let this go. As you can see, the value of yr draw has gone way down, and this, combined with possibility you are drawing dead in a fairly small pot, not to mention yr draw is now ass ended, make this an easy fold. The possibility of the river card is why I would have folded the turn. Call and hope to see 2 pair.
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#16
07-05-2005, 01:28 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Boz's suggestion to raise the turn is a good one, helps me to figure out what's up on the river. Still would have been a tough call on the river after calling a turn 3-bet, maybe even a fold. [/ QUOTE ] I think if you are going to raise the turn you should really consider folding to a 3-bet. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting. My initial response was raise/fold, but then I considered the table-image thing and decided that throwing one more in and check/folding the turn UI was a better, uh, investment. I could really go either way with it, tho.
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#17
07-05-2005, 02:34 PM
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Re: Counterfeited by the turn, hit my draw on the river
[ QUOTE ]
I'm torn between raising and calling this flop. It depends on the table. It's impossible for me to say which I think is correct since you did not present any reads. With no reads I lean towards calling and hope it is not raised behind me. [/ QUOTE ] This is an interesting point, with 6 players raising could definitely be a better option on the flop here.
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