Brand Spankin' New Glock 19

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Except that you have no idea what the facts are:



[/ QUOTE ]

and neither do you. I was talking about lives saved by concealed weapons . This doesn't include protecting property with household guns. Re read my post.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
djj,

Read every page on this site:

www.guncite.com

Take as long as you want. All of the articles are footnoted, often with links to articles with opposing views. Even if it doesn't change your mind, it will stop you from repeating hackneyed BS that was debunked years ago.



[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly is this "hackneyed BS"? I just went through every single statistic that ace cited and said why it doesn't support his claim. I also am not expecting to get unbiased information from a place called guncite.com.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just read it, ok? I'm not asking you to believe it. Just read it. As for what hackneyed BS, see my above post responding to your question about when how often guns serve their intended purpose (defense).

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Just read it, ok? I'm not asking you to believe it. Just read it. As for what hackneyed BS, see my above post responding to your question about when how often guns serve their intended purpose (defense).



[/ QUOTE ]

I just responded to this. read my above post.

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime.

FACT 35 states (and the majority of the American "Shall Issue" States population) live in "right-to-carry" states, and in each, the crime rate fell after the law became active.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of carry permit holders since Florida's right-to-carry law started in 1989.

DJJ's STATEMENT: "I was talking about lives saved by concealed weapons."

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below the 28 national average and remains below the national average to this day.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws:

Fact: The serious crime rate in Texas fell 50% faster than the national average after a concealed carry law was passed in 1995.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings.

Fact: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:
- Murder rates drop 8%
- Rape rates fall 5%
- Aggravated assaults drop 7%

Fact: "Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense".

- The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

- The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000)

- The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

- The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000).

Myth: People with concealed weapons will commit crimes

Fact: The results for the 30 states that have passed "shall-issue" laws for concealed carry permits are similar. Here are some specific cases:

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are:
- 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
- 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.

Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas - "there haven't been Wild West shootouts in the streets".

Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Fact: Compared to the entire population, Texas CCW holders are about 7.6 times less likely to be arrested of a violent crime.21 The numbers breakdown as follows:
- 214,000 CCW holders
- 526 (0.2%) felony arrests of CCW holders that have been adjudicated
- 100 (0.05%) felony convictions

Fact: The four year violent crime rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, CCW holders are 5.3 times less likely to commit a violent crime.

Myth: People do not need concealable weapons

Fact: In 79.7% of gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun. A quarter of the gun defenses occurred in places away from the defender's home.

Fact: 77% of all violent crime occurs in public places. This makes concealed carry necessary for almost all self-defense needs. But due to onerous laws forbidding concealed carry, only 26.8% of defensive gun uses occurred away from home.

Fact: Often small weapons (that are capable of being concealed) are the only ones usable by people of small stature, or those with physical disabilities.

Myth: Police are against concealed carrying by citizens

Fact: "All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen...I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert."

Fact: "I...[felt] that such legislation present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my fears absolutely groundless".

Fact: Explain this to the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Second Amendment Police Department, and Law Enforcement for the Preservation of the Second Amendment, all of whom support shall-issue concealed carry laws.


any other questions? [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime.

Fact: 35 states (and the majority of the American "Shall Issue" States population) live in "right-to-carry" states, and in each, the crime rate fell after the law became active.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of carry permit holders since Florida's right-to-carry law started in 1989.

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below the 28 national average and remains below the national average to this day.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws:

Fact: The serious crime rate in Texas fell 50% faster than the national average after a concealed carry law was passed in 1995.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings.

Fact: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:
- Murder rates drop 8%
- Rape rates fall 5%
- Aggravated assaults drop 7%

Fact: "Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense".

- The total Violent Crime Rate is 26% higher in the restrictive states (798.3 per 100,000 pop.) than in the less restrictive states (631.6 per 100,000).

- The Homicide Rate is 49% higher in the restrictive states (10.1 per 100,000) than in the states with less restrictive CCW laws (6.8 per 100,000)

- The Robbery Rate is 58% higher in the restrictive states (289.7 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (183.1 per 100,000).

- The Aggravated Assault Rate is 15% higher in the restrictive states (455.9 per 100,000) than in the less restrictive states (398.3 per 100,000).

Myth: People with concealed weapons will commit crimes

Fact: The results for the 30 states that have passed "shall-issue" laws for concealed carry permits are similar. Here are some specific cases:

Fact: People with concealed carry permits are18:
- 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public
- 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public

Fact: In Texas, citizens with concealed carry permits are 14 times less likely to commit a crime. They are also five times less likely to commit a violent crime.

Fact: Even gun control organizations agree it is a non-problem, as in Texas - "there haven't been Wild West shootouts in the streets".

Fact: Of 14,000 CCW licensees in Oregon, only 4 (0.03%) were convicted of the criminal (not necessarily violent) use or possession of a firearm.

Fact: Compared to the entire population, Texas CCW holders are about 7.6 times less likely to be arrested of a violent crime.21 The numbers breakdown as follows:
- 214,000 CCW holders
- 526 (0.2%) felony arrests of CCW holders that have been adjudicated
- 100 (0.05%) felony convictions

Fact: The four year violent crime rate for CCW holders is 128 per 100,000. For the general population, it is 710 per 100,000. In other words, CCW holders are 5.3 times less likely to commit a violent crime.

Myth: People do not need concealable weapons

Fact: In 79.7% of gun defenses, the defender used a concealable handgun. A quarter of the gun defenses occurred in places away from the defender's home.23
Fact: 77% of all violent crime occurs in public places.24 This makes concealed carry necessary for almost all self-defense needs. But due to onerous laws forbidding concealed carry, only 26.8% of defensive gun uses occurred away from home.

Fact: Often small weapons (that are capable of being concealed) are the only ones usable by people of small stature, or those with physical disabilities.

Myth: Police are against concealed carrying by citizens

Fact: "All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen...I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert."
Fact: "I...[felt] that such legislation present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my fears absolutely groundless".

Fact: Explain this to the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Second Amendment Police Department, and Law Enforcement for the Preservation of the Second Amendment, all of whom support shall-issue concealed carry laws.



[/ QUOTE ]

Before you spew off more random facts from your pro gun website, respond to the questions I brought up after your first post.

"Before you spew off more random facts "

why do you say these facts are random? They are NOT RELEVANT to a concealed carry debate?

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
why do you say these facts are random? They are NOT RELEVANT to a concealed carry debate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just made a post debunking all of the facts you listed. I'm asking you to respond to that and tell me why they are of any relevance.

what have you debunked??

What do you have to say about this? Not relevant? spin-doctored? now what.

regarding CC permits "I...[felt] that such legislation present[ed] a clear and present danger to law-abiding citizens by placing more handguns on our streets. Boy was I wrong. Our experience in Harris County, and indeed statewide, has proven my fears absolutely groundless".

-J. Holmes Harris County Texas District Attourney, 1997

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
How Often Are Firearms Used in Self-Defense?

Introduction
There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.
How Often Are Firearms Used in Self-Defense?

Introduction
There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.


[/ QUOTE ]

My point was that there is no way that you can definitively prove that a concealed weapon saved any life. For this to be the case there woould actually have to be a person out on the streets with the intention to kill you. If this is the case then a concealed weapons probably isn't going to do you any good since your attacker isn't going to give you a chance to defend yourself.

The benefits of a concealed weapon is more to protect your property and not your life.