When AJ sorta hits.

[SamIAm]

A buddy of mine sent me this hand and I wasn't quite sure what to do with it. Here's his message.
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Party $5/$10.
one early limper. super loose player.
one middle limper vpip ~33%

i'm in late with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I raise. sb calls as do both limpers.

flop is:

6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

it's check to me. i bet (maybe a mistake?)

sb calls, early limper calls and middle limper raises. I think for a few seconds and fold (maybe another mistake?) and then everyone else folds too. the guy takes down the pot with what could have very well been a flush draw value raise.

what's up with that???

any thoughts on how to play it? I considered three betting the flop, but didn't think i was far enough ahead of anyone to make that work in my favor. figured someone had a King and wasn't letting go of it. i suppose
i had two ace outs and two jack outs. slight chance of runner runner to
the nuts...VERY SLIGHT.

what do you think?

holla,
bill

[SamIAm]

And here's my reply.
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First, I think the flop bet is good. You raised preflop and it's a decent sized pot. If nobody has a K, you can't give a free turn.

It's mostly hard because of the results AFTER you folded (which is analysis-cheating). This probably falls under the "loose calls" section at the end of SSH; you're probably way behind, but you really don't want to bet and then fold to one raise. Or maybe I just read that section too recently. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The fact that middle could be on a flush (or straight) draw maybe makes calling nicer. The other players make it more like folding, though. Even if middle is on a draw, you gotta expect the other TWO players to call 2 bets if they called 1, so you'll be playing against 3 opponents with MPTK (and 5 outs to improve). [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I'd want a better read on MP to fold to the check-raise, I think. I don't think you can be so terrified of the callers, either. Unhappy, but maybe not terrified. I say you call the raise and then, if the turn's a blank, fold to any bet like a scared little girl. If nobody bets the turn, you should do it yourself.
-Sam

[Fat Nicky]

You're probably drawing to 5 outs with AJ, plus you can hit runner runner for a straight, so you easily have to odds to call the flop raise.

The way the hand is going, you will probably have odds to see the river too. Throw in the small chance you're ahead and folding this hand anywhere on the flop or turn is probably a mistake.

[bozlax]

Flop bet is good, but as you're doing it you have to be telling yourself, "An early player with king-rag or two spades is going to C/R me...don't chickenshit out when he does."

ALL of your outs are tainted, except the jacks. Regardless, you need to call this raise or leave this table, as this Villan will be taking shots at you for the rest of the session.

Any other info you have on Villan makes the turn and river easier to play, but I think getting out for one bet on the flop is a BIG mistake. And, I think giving a free card on this flop would have been a BIGGER mistake.

[WillyTrailer]

So I guess it's about time I start posting here. I read the posts all the time and inevitably send questions to someone who ends up posting them here anyway.

The hand is question is my hand and in retrospect I'm pretty sure I screwed it up. The table had recently gone super tight aggressive and I was wanting to get out without losing too much of what I had already won (weak!).

My three opponents were all smart, aggressive post flop players. The flop raise isn't what scared me. What scared me were the callers. I was afraid I had the worst hand and the most terrible draw imaginable. By the way, I surely had at best 4 outs. It was more likely 2 or 3 outs if all players stayed in. Well, that is if I was, in fact, behind.

If I had it to do over again here's how I'd play it.

Three bet the flop (hopefully this clears out the callers and even a weak K now that they're fearing a set of J's or K's or at worst, TPTK.) If the callers now fold and the raisor caps it I'd probably fold to a turn bet.
If he just calls I probably bet the turn if a blank falls. (i.e. non A, non spade)
I'm betting the turn with the intention of folding to a check-raise.
And I'll just check through on the river if I get a chance. Surely I'll call a river bet if another blank falls and he decides to take a stab at it.

I don't think that calling the flop bet here is a good idea at all. I'm either raising or getting out.

Also, I don't think there's much chance at all that I'm getting c/r by a King w/Rag! The raisor most likely has two spades, top two, or a set.

Sorry I'm so scattered; it's my first post. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And I might still fold the flop, but I do love that raise button way more than the fold button!

[mister]

I could only call a raise if I felt it was someone I had a read on. A tight player I will respect probably 80% of the time, and 20% of the time I'll reraise to keep them from making that play too much.

On a fish I'll play back much more often.