I don't think we should extradite anyone to the USA...

[mackthefork]

If there is any small chance they will face the death penalty, there is a reason we banned it in this country, these things do not happen by accident. As do this we may as well bring back hanging, drawing and quartering, if we want to murder people we should do it ourselves, not pass our dirty laundry to other countries.

The battle to banish Babar Ahmad (BBC News)

Mack

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Even though I'm no big fan of the death penalty (I don't get all huffy against it, either), I think to make a blanket comment that the UK should *never* extradite *anyone* to the US because we still have capital punishment is a bit extreme. Your jurists have the ability to make decisions on a case-to-case basis. If you want to advocate that your country be very, very careful, that's one thing, but outright saying "never" is a bit extreme, unless you don't mind being thought of as a safe haven for vicious killers.

[mackthefork]

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I think to make a blanket comment that the UK should *never* extradite *anyone* to the US because we still have capital punishment is a bit extreme.

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I never said or meant that, I would be happy if the US would promise never to execute or torture a person extradited from the UK. It's not that I think the standard of justice is similar to that found in say Turkey or Iran, nothing could be further from my mind, I just feel that we should seek assurances that you would not go further than we ourselves would.

Regards Mack

[Olof]

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It's not that I think the standard of justice is similar to that found in say Turkey or Iran, nothing could be further from my mind, I just feel that we should seek assurances that you would not go further than we ourselves would.

Regards Mack

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Would you approve if Sweden refused to extradite rapists to the UK unless they get guarantees that the rapists get en-suite accomodation in prison and are back on the street in less than two years?

[mackthefork]

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It's not that I think the standard of justice is similar to that found in say Turkey or Iran, nothing could be further from my mind, I just feel that we should seek assurances that you would not go further than we ourselves would.

Regards Mack

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Would you approve if Sweden refused to extradite rapists to the UK unless they get guarantees that the rapists get en-suite accomodation in prison and are back on the street in less than two years?

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Is that what happens to rapist in Swedish prisons?

Mack

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

It's not that I think the standard of justice is similar to that found in say Turkey or Iran, nothing could be further from my mind,

And I didn't think you did.

I just feel that we should seek assurances that you would not go further than we ourselves would.


I appreciate the sentiment and I have no issue with a discussion about this being part of the process, but people accused of crimes have a right a speedy trial, and victims of crimes (and their families) have the right to believe that those accused of crimes will not avoid justice because of philosophical differences between venues.

[mackthefork]

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and victims of crimes (and their families) have the right to believe that those accused of crimes will not avoid justice because of philosophical differences between venues.


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I guess this is what complicates matters. People who may have been wronged by the accused, could feel justice hadn't been done if the punishments of your country were somehow reduced, in order to make them more palletable to people in another country. A lot of people here don't care what happens to terrorists (or even suspected terrorists, no smoke without fire and all), these are probably the same people who heaped praise on the Met after they gunned down the Brazilian chap in London. I understand justice has to be seen to be done, but I fear we are changing our stance in the UK on the death penalty, and if we are extraditing people who could be executed (if found guilty), we are facilitating such punishments.

In summary I'm trying to say (badly), okay so the US courts may feel that the death penalty is appropriate in this case to make victims feel justice is done, and I am arguing that we are sending him to you, and we also need to feel right about our part in this.

Regards Mack

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I understand justice has to be seen to be done

Unfortunately, that's the same everywhere. I prefer that justice *is* done. As former LP presidential candidate Harry Browne suggested after 9/11, the best way to know we get the right people is to afford them all the protections our constitution provides everyone.

he US courts may feel that the death penalty is appropriate in this case to make victims feel justice is done

Most US judges are aware that often the death penalty makes it harder to get a conviction. In the case you cite, I can't see the death penalty even being an option. The accused seems too far removed from both the central planning or the acts themselves.

I am arguing that we are sending him to you, and we also need to feel right about our part in this.


I understand, but you should be open to accepting a process for addressing your concern, not a predetermined result for all cases all the time.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Isn't this pretty much solved already? The Norwegian government extradites if there is no risk of death penalty, torture or political persecution. I thought UK had the same system?

[mackthefork]

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Isn't this pretty much solved already? The Norwegian government extradites if there is no risk of death penalty, torture or political persecution. I thought UK had the same system?

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The law was changed in 2004 to make it easier to extradite terrorist suspects.

Mack