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  #1  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:45 AM
Gugel Gugel is offline
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Default Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Button ($105.65)</font>
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($124.60)</font>
BB ($98.50)
UTG ($19.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, UTG calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Flop: ($8) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $103.65</font>, Hero calls $53.65.

Final Pot: $215.30

I overbet the flop cause I wanted to either take the pot right there or be all-in. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:49 AM
Morrek Morrek is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

Why not just 3bet allin right away?
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:51 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

Call button's raise. It's likely that your A and 5 outs are no good, so you're basically just pushing with a draw and no fold equity as a 2:1 dog.
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  #4  
Old 12-17-2005, 12:59 AM
tagtastic tagtastic is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

My logic with this type of hand is if you're willing to stack off, just do it. If your opponent calls and turn blanks you just end up putting money in with bad odds. If it goes check/check on a turn blank you can find yourself in a tough situation on the river when your opponent bets out and you gotta decide if it's a missed draw bluff or he was hoping to checkraise you on the turn and is betting for value.

Either make a normal pot sized-raise and plan on getting away from this when you miss faced with a decent sized bet or overbet push yourself and take the extra fold equity. I choose between these actions based on my image and my opponents (whichever will get me the best fold equity, some players see overbet push as a sign of a bluff/semi-bluff, others as extreme strength).

EDIT: I just realized your raise was a 3-bet not a raise.. in this case I'd call and get away when you miss or again push. In general I like pushing OOP and pot raising in position, so this is a push or call for me.
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  #5  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:05 AM
Gugel Gugel is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

The pot will be over $100 and the villian will have $50 left. Anyone that calls is pot committed. Most if not all, people will either fold or push here.
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:23 AM
beavens beavens is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

[ QUOTE ]
Call button's raise. It's likely that your A and 5 outs are no good, so you're basically just pushing with a draw and no fold equity as a 2:1 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

you always give the villains so much credit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #7  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:26 AM
PoBoy321 PoBoy321 is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call button's raise. It's likely that your A and 5 outs are no good, so you're basically just pushing with a draw and no fold equity as a 2:1 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

you always give the villains so much credit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably do. I'm also used to the rock garden that is UBet.

Anyway, even if he's against AK, he's still a dog pushing a draw with no FE.

EDIT: Actually, I thought button was the PFR. I think he has 33. My original statement stands.
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  #8  
Old 12-17-2005, 01:29 AM
beavens beavens is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8
Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call button's raise. It's likely that your A and 5 outs are no good, so you're basically just pushing with a draw and no fold equity as a 2:1 dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

you always give the villains so much credit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably do. I'm also used to the rock garden that is UBet.

Anyway, even if he's against AK, he's still a dog pushing a draw with no FE.

[/ QUOTE ]

no worries brother - your advice, while sometimes might be too conservative, is always well thought out and usually on point - def a good thing to have you on this board.
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  #9  
Old 12-17-2005, 02:01 AM
gol4pro gol4pro is offline
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Default Re: Flush draw and Pair on the Flop...Villian Pushes

I like your play... just sucks that he had AQ.
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