Anybody really beating the new Party 30/60?

[Nigel]

[ QUOTE ]
The other problem is that it's not clear just what one might jump to. At any given moment, there might be something like 10-15 hold 'em tables higher than say 40-80 running in the entire US (excluding extremely high limits), say 1-2 at Bellagio and 4-5 at Commerce and 2 at Stars and maybe 1-2 at UB and say 3-4 at Interpoker or what have you. That just isn't a lot of game selection.

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Wow, having been so Party-centric for so long, I didn't realize the situation was that grim. And you're including live poker too!

I had always assumed there were a fair number of high limit games at the other sites waiting for me if my skill level and bankroll ever got up to par.

The good ol' Party 15/30 at isn't looking so bad these days as a stable income/bankroll building game.

[Enon]

I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

[Barry]

Well I was running well until today...

KK 5x and lost 4 of them. 2x I was against AA, 1x vs AJ, A on the flop, then the worst of all. It's capped 3 ways. Flop is KJ7, flop is capped, turn is 7, turn is capped, river blank and capped, I lose to 77.

[Nigel]

In a game that appears to be this tough I don't how you could maintain 3+BB/100. With even just one bad run of any appreciable length you'd be hosed, heck even a good break-even stretch would kill you.

Knowing how good some of the players are that seem to be "struggling" and seeing their collective WR's for what is well over 100k hands, I would say that over 3BB/100 for that many hands is either a case of being an insane luckbox or selective reporting/importing.

But hey, I'd like to believe it's achievable! In my best Martin Yan voice... If Derb can do it, so can you!

Nigel

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I know 2 players who are beating the 30/60 for 3 BB/100 over 100K+ hands:

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!

As for myself, I'm a pretty mediocre player and I've made about 1.4 BB over the my last 30k hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Win rates are such a black box, really. The 1.5/100 number has been tossed around in private conversations between some 2+2ers and may have become something of an indstury standard without any empirical validation. The "true" theoretical winrate for an expert might somewhat higher, though 3/100 seems dubious.

There's also a selective sampling issue going on here. This has obviously turned into the "I'm running mediocre!" thread and the people who have posted results are the people who are in fact running mediocre. Frankly if I had run at 3.0/100 over my last 40K I probably wouldn't post that as it would come off as a brag and I probably also wouldn't post my results if say I had lost money during that stretch as I'd be too embarassed.

Subjectively speaking, I feel like I *have* run bad while posting that 1/100 number (and objectively speaking, I know that I played bad/tilty during maybe 20% of those hands) so I expect better things for myself going forward, but I don't know how reliable that sort of judgement is. Frankly I really have no idea what my "true" winrate is, in part because I'm bouncing around between different games and in part because my game itself is changing and mostly because, as I've been aptly reminded over the past six weeks or so, the long-run in poker is very, very, very long.

[mikelow]

Well, there must be some losers in this game.

Not anyone on this forum?

[sthief09]

do you realize how pointless worrying about 22k, or 50k, or even 80k hands is, especially when you're in the ballpark of what you'd expect?

[mach3]

Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

[Klepton]

18k hands - 5.09bb/100

my game selection is awesome

[obi---one]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no - I feel a DERB argument coming on.

Regarding the guy who 8 tables and beats it for 3BB/100 - I find that to be an amazing claim. I don't think it would be impossible to beat for 3BB 4 tabling, but you end up HU or 3 way w/ a blind so many times, that player reads are MUCH more important. The players, even the losing ones, are flat out better. I 8 tabled 15/30, not sure I could do it at 30/60. I used to read/surf while 4 tabling 15/30, but can't do it at 30/60 - all other windows are closed for me. I play in shorter burst too, to stay fresh.

[ QUOTE ]

Daniel H who posts sporadically in the mid high forum recently said in a post that he and a friend who experiment together with looser play (VP$IP of around 30%) had a combined winrate of 3BB over 100k. Tried searching for this post but I couldn't find it. It is a recent one though so it should probably be easy to find.

Also, I have recently been communicating with one of the top 30/60 players who 8 tables the game 8 hours per day. He claims to also have a winrate of 3 BB over 100k+ since the new games opened up. I trust this player since I've recognized him as a excellent player over the past year I've played with him. His goal for the year is $800k stricly from 30/60 party game !!


[/ QUOTE ]

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I don't see how someone could have a winrate of 3bbb when playing 8 tables because there are never eight good games going on at one time. But, I believe a 3bb win rate is possible if 4 tabling, coupled with great game selection and great play.