I think I go too far with hands, please help me reevaluate my game.

Stefan Prodan · #1 08-26-2005, 02:37 PM

I went to Russia over the summer and so I hadn't played poker for 2 months or so until I got back in July. I tried to go to 3/6 with my BR of about $2100 but hit a 50 BB downswing, figured maybe I should go back to $2/$4, so I did, then went to Interpoker to clear the $100 bonus and lost $400 in the process of trying to clear that and another $90 that popped up in the meantime.

Since then I thought I was on the way back up, but then this past week I hit another 75BB or so downswing at $2/$4 and so now I am going to have two negative months in a row, something that's never happened to me before, but I guess I should get used to.

Anyway, I think while I was gone, somehow I became too attached to hands. I reread SSHE and I think I got the "Don't give up on big pots, Stefan! You'll win some of them!" and missed the whole "Uhm, hey, you probably don't wanna call down with some of these hands unless the people are pretty bad, man." part. Also, I think I have learned to distrust raises from fish, which is an odd thing, since if there's anyone you can trust raises from, it's fish!

Here are some hands. I'm posting a few of them, and I don't feel the same about each one. I think there are a couple where I was right to go to the end and a couple where I should have given up, and I'm just wondering if I'm thinking along the right lines with my evaluations.

Thanks for any help anyone's going to offer [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Looking back, I think there was a higher chance he had AA than QQ or JJ obviously, but since the pot was already there and built, I guess I don't have to be ahead the majority of the time to call. Or am I being too loose to call down here? Did I take the right line?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, CO bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 3-bets, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero folds.

River: (11.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Maybe I shoulda hung on with this one, but I thought with the coldcall preflop and the big checkraise, he probably had overs or AQ and I was way behind. Was I too tight here?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

I think this hand was clearly a basket full of suck on my part, but my reasoning at the time was:

The bettor is a 20/8/3+ AF guy, presumably a decent player. He is quite capable of putting me on overs and trying to bet me out after what might be a bad flop for me. At least, he's done it before. The other two are complete donks and will call with just about anything reasonable. Overs, pairs, 3 to a 6-low, whatever. I'd like to make them pay to draw to whatever it is they're drawing to, plus see if this guy is for real or not.

With the 3-bet, I guess I have to assume he was. However, with so many bets in the pot, should I call and take a card off?

I did, and got the card that made me call to the end. Should I have raised the turn?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero (poster) raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (8.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB
Bettor on the turn is a complete donk, 70% VPIP, but very low AF, which is why maybe I should have taken his turn bet more seriously, but at the same time, I keep having the "A surprise threatening turn bet usually isn't" thing in the back of my head, and I raised him because, hey, I still have top pair, pretty good kicker.

Looking back, I'm not REAL sure why I checked the river. I suspect that I was tilting a little bit from having a pattern of lots of people checkraise me with flushes on the river. I have seriously been backdoored so many times in the past week, I think it may have had me on tilt somewhat. Assuming I wasn't, do I bet this river?

If he had 3-bet me on the turn with such a low AF, should I have folded immediately, folded unimproved on the river, or gone to showdown?

These are some of the hands where I can't really tell exactly how I should have played them, though I know I played a lot of them wrong. I can post more if people would be willing to read them, but I tried to find some that were indicative of my general problem.

Well, here's one more, for good measure:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (6 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG folds.

River: (8 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Is this a hand where I have to "call down liberally on the river for one bet" or one where if I fold, I will occasionally mess up big?

callmedonnie · #2 08-26-2005, 02:55 PM

Hard to do w/out reads, but I'll give it a shot.

First hand I like, assuming that player was reasonable.

What is your logic on the second hand? I'm thinking he has a set, not AQ.

Sorry, these hands are too hard w/out read. I tried.

#3 08-26-2005, 02:56 PM

All of these hands look ok to me. I probably would call down hand #2 though. I would focus on game selection, I find that when I lose a lot of money it is a lot of time from playing on bad games, I haven't played Interpoker, but I'm guessing the games suck.

Stefan Prodan · #4 08-26-2005, 03:01 PM

These were actually all on Party, and all of them had at least one or two complete donks at the table. If there's anything I do right, it's table selection, I think.

Stefan Prodan · #5 08-26-2005, 03:05 PM

Unless otherwise specified, the players were all standard Party 2/4 slightly loose, slightly passive players (25-30 VPIP, between .75 and 1.25 AF)

#6 08-26-2005, 04:52 PM

Hey Stefan, you said you had dropped $400 at Interpoker, so that's what I was talking about. I've had the problem of no good tables at other sites like Absolutepoker. As far as the hands go I don't think I would lay any of them down except to the most passive of players. Except maybe the AQ hand on the 99 board. Good luck.