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#32
05-17-2005, 04:17 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
You're "intuition" is off. Or, you have caught the "push anything from anywhere" disease which seems to be sweeping this forum. [/ QUOTE ] Actually it was my calculations that were off. *Given the calling ranges I specified for my opponents*, pushing QTo in that spot would be correct, those close enough that pushing would also be reasonable. Of course, if even one of my opponents will call with a much wider range than 66+, AT+, KQ - whether because he is making a legitimate strategy adjustment or because he just likes to play sheriff - pushing that QTo becomes unprofitable. 
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#34
05-17-2005, 04:26 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
Which is better on the bubble with even stacks? A. push from button with any 2, when everyone knows you will push with any 2 B. call from BB with top 35%, when button pushed with any 2 I agree it is a matter of style. You might even make a case for both, which takes playing the player out of the game entirely. Sabre170 [/ QUOTE ] It is not a matter of style. It is a matter of math. If the button knows SB and BB will call very liberally, he should know better than to push any two cards. If the BB knows that button is pushing with a certain range, he should know better than to call just because his hand is an odds favorite over that range.
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#36
05-17-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
Which is better on the bubble with even stacks? A. push from button with any 2, when everyone knows you will push with any 2 B. call from BB with top 35%, when button pushed with any 2 I agree it is a matter of style. You might even make a case for both, which takes playing the player out of the game entirely. Sabre170 [/ QUOTE ] If you know he pushing any two and he knows you will call with your top 35% than he is making the bigger mistake. But the fact is you are both making mistakes and giving that lost $EV to the other 2 opponents. Just becasue your mistake is less of a mistake, doesn't make it not a mistake.
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#38
05-17-2005, 05:43 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
If the BB knows that button is pushing with a certain range, he should know better than to call just because his hand is an odds favorite over that range. [/ QUOTE ] I'm trying to focus the discussion on the question of how much of a favorite you need to be to call a push of any two. First you said I don't really know it is any two. Fair enough, but plenty of contributors here do advocate pushing any 2 in the kinds of bubble situations we are discussing. Now you say it is a matter of math, not style. I think we can reconcile somewhat. My style is to take a 60-70% edge in calling a bubble push. You can beat me by being more selective about what you push, or by catching lucky. Although I play incredibly tight, I have virtually never actually been blinded out. Have you? Sabre170
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#39
05-17-2005, 06:06 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, one might have looser calling standards, but say 99+, AQ+ is not at all unreasonable for quite a few opponents in this scenario. [/ QUOTE ] I think a lot has got to depend on the level you're playing. Seriously, I see tons of calls by almost anything, as long as someone is in the blinds. Heck, I'm even seeing OVERcalls with things like 87s after two people have gone all in. Anyway, calling with any face card and any kicker is extremely common at the 10's. Deciding what kicker constitutes a reasonable range for someone who calls with Aces is kind of absurd in those games, since most people call with any ace unhesitantly. It's just a whole different world. On a side note, I was looking through my pokertracker imports the other day, sorting by who I played the most games against. Out of about 1800 opponents(not all of my stuff has been imported yet), I've only seen a handful of people as many as three times. In the 10's, people just come and go and don't act in determinable, schooled, logical patterns all that much. I still take lots of notes, though, every chance I get, just in case. But I've had to make many adjustments in my game because talk of aggressive bubble play like you find here on 2+2 doesn't work well when such a big percentage of people are literally willing to call with 75o. You may still win, but the way you win chips on the bubble by stealing is not by showing down your inferior cards, but by having everyone fold before you have to show them often enough that it's worth stealing with inferior cards in the first place.
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#40
05-17-2005, 06:20 PM
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Re: I\'m all confused all of a sudden
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps a useful question is, what are your (Blarg at the 11's, Scuba, Ilya, shejk etc. at your repsective levels) calling standards when on the bubble with evenish stacks. KQ? KJ? 44? [/ QUOTE ] It's hard to answer without considering reads. I'd have to add in what shjek said: [ QUOTE ] Are people to my right stealing a lot? Is there someone at the table calling too much? What's my estimated fold equity when I push? [/ QUOTE ] I'd also add, will my calling close the action? I'm not doing a lot of calling with kings, but will call with low pairs occasionally and medium pairs always, if it's folded down to being heads-up with the raiser. I'll willingly surrender possible, "iffy" equity a lot of times in a calling situation if I feel I can get people to fold their own blinds once the blinds pass me. But that answer addresses what people at my level push with, and in a very very generalized way, and my response to it, not what people call with, which seems to be more the point of this thread.
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