Curtains Hand #2

Degen · #1 12-09-2005, 07:09 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 (t985)
Hero (t975)
Button (t975)
SB (t1030)
BB (t985)
UTG (t985)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1055)
MP1 (t1025)
MP2 (t985)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises to t45, 1 fold, SB raises to t72.5, 1 fold, Hero calls t30.

Flop: (t162.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t125, Hero calls t125.

Final Pot: t412.50

Degen · #2 12-09-2005, 07:12 AM

PF I can understand.

But what other flop were you looking for other than a J? I either forfeit here and give them credit for an overpair or I raise. Flat calling doesn't give you any more information...if you think you are ahead, IMO, then this is poor for the simple fact that so many cards ruin your hand on the turn.

What do you do if an over hits on the turn and he bets 1/2 pot? what if he pushes?

What do you do if a brick hits the turn and he 1/2 pots? What if he pushes?

Jman28 · #3 12-09-2005, 07:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PF I can understand.

But what other flop were you looking for other than a J? I either forfeit here and give them credit for an overpair or I raise. Flat calling doesn't give you any more information...if you think you are ahead, IMO, then this is poor for the simple fact that so many cards ruin your hand on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't say it doesn't give you any information. They do have to act first on the turn, don't they? I'm thinking that villain had TT+ AQ+ here. If we raise, TT+ reraises and we prolly fold (?), losing a decent amount of chips.

I assume curtains is counting on his opponent to not fire another barrell with a missed AQ/AK. Then he will have the information he needs to take the pot, only costing him the t125 flop call.

If Q+ hits the turn, oops. I think it may be worth that risk to not get short stacked this early.

bennies · #4 12-09-2005, 07:19 AM

Interesting, because hero decides not to decide on the flop.
Most advice on this board advocates defining your hand, preflop or on the flop at the latest. I imagine Hero wants more information before deciding if JJ is good. For instance, if villain makes a 2/3 pot bet on the turn I imagine Hero will fold.

Jman28 · #5 12-09-2005, 07:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]

What do you do if an over hits on the turn and he bets 1/2 pot? what if he pushes?

What do you do if a brick hits the turn and he 1/2 pots? What if he pushes?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume Curtains would fold in any of those cases without a read. He probably thinks it's very unlikely that he'll be ahead if the villain bets again.

I would prolly raise the flop, and don't know how I'd handle these turns, but I understand why he doesn't raise it. I think I may start playing the same.

psyduck · #6 12-09-2005, 07:26 AM

Isn't this standard? If villian has A-high or a smaller pair (but still overpair), then you'd like him to hang himself. Any 'defining' raise is for 30% of your stack, and villain might be an idiot who would come over the top with AK or AQ because of the raggy board.

At least, that's what I do at the 30+3s [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

raptor517 · #7 12-09-2005, 07:49 AM

i go against the 'grain' of 2+2ers that say you have to define yer hand preflop or on the flop. why not call 125 and take a turn? you have position. thats a huge factor. i really like how curtains played the hand up to this point. shows a much deeper understanding of post flop play than i gave him credit for. holla

#8 12-09-2005, 08:19 AM

What % of villain's check the turn with AK (AQ?) at the 215s?

#9 12-09-2005, 08:31 AM

Why does this show SB raising from 45 to 72.5 which is 27.5 and HERO calling for 30 more? Sorry if this bugs noone else but I just want to be clear. I'm guessing that SB actually raised to 75?

I have no idea what this sort of min raise usually means at the 215 but it may mean that villain is a clown, in which case not raising him out of the pot in order to get more chips from him on the turn sounds good to me.

pergesu · #10 12-09-2005, 12:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flat calling doesn't give you any more information...if you think you are ahead

[/ QUOTE ]
Flat calling doesn't give your opponent any information at all either...and he may be left scratching his head on the turn. Unless he has a really strong hand he'll probably end up checking to you or making one of Harrington's "dark tunnel" bluffs