simple hand, simple question

[bad beetz]

20/40.

Tall man to my left is very aggressive, very poor, posts live 40's all the time and what not. He's bad.

Man to his left is a very loose, very poor player

I have 92 in BB, they both limp as does SB, I rap.

Flop comes J22, three colors.

I know tall guy to my left will take a stab so I check, he bets, loose idiot calls, I check-raise, they both call.

Turn comes an offsuit 8, I bet, they fold.

QUESTION:
Wait till turn or not?

He'll probably bet the turn, but maybe he won't and then I won't get any money on the river. People don't respect flop raises and they throw in the extra bet like it's not real, which is what happened here. But if I wait till the turn I get a big bet from tall guy and maybe another, but I don't know.

I like my play, but I'm not sure it's right. I think it's right, in fact I'm pretty sure. But it may not be. If it's not it's close. Maybe it's not close. What do you guys think? I think this should be simple and I should know the answer. I just had a Whopper from burger king. It was really good. I ate it in the car on the way back to my computer and got ketchup all over my shirt. I'm tired, I think I'll take a nap. Damn, my bed's all covered with crap and i'll have to move it first.. This should be real simple and there should be a clear answer. Should I clean it off and take a nap? Damn, I have work to do, I should stay up. Why am I posting on twoplustwo? I have work to do. Whay am I typing my thoughts? Did you hear that? I have to go.

[bobgreen]

Beetz, I hope I'm not waking you from your nap.

One consideration that may provoke you to check-call the flop is the rainbow lack of draws.

One consideration that may encourage you to check-call the turn is the rainbow and significant-9-in-your-hand lack of draws.

I guess I'd give em two opportunities to make second best.

Bob

[Ulysses]

Whatever. Doesn't really matter. I'm fond of that old standard - bet the flop, checkraise the turn.

This one seems like a classic opportunity for a double or triple checkraise.

[elysium]

hi bad
you have a semi-vulnerable hand that deteriorates rapidly if you allow the board to pair. what you are doing is not so much betting to get more money into the pot, you're betting to prevent the board from pairing. you would just as soon that they fold on the flop. now, if they hang in there, and you improve to a boat, well, now you can think about going for a check-raise.

sometimes when cards are running bad, trips seem like a powerhouse. don't be fooled. you need to take down the pot as fast as you can. if they hang in there, they hang in there. but you want the pot.

[Diplomat]

BB,

Simple answer -- keep the wrapper half-on the burger so it cannot drip on your shirt. You have so much to learn. Pssht. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I think DS made a comment about a similar hand a few months ago. His comment went something like "...listen very carefully. You must check this flop every time." I could be misquoting here, and I'm probably going to be slapped by someone who is willing to search the archives for his post, but it really applies here. The flop is totally devoid of draws. Really, if you consider betting the flop, you can only count on a jack or another duece calling you. Since they suck, they might call you with more, but not necessarily.

Further when you checkraise the flop, your action screams "I have a jack, let's rock," or possibly a pocket pair. Therefore you are unlikely to get action from anyone on the turn, unless they have a jack as well, or have you beat (or if they catch an overcard). So I don't really like the flop checkraise all that much either.

So I'd go with the typical average joe flopped-trips-so-I'll-checkraise-the-turn approach, or even wait for the river. Actually, I think I might wait right to the river, to try to drag another bet or two out of them. (although, I might bet the river instead of checkraising, unless I thought the aggressive player had actually made a pair, then I'd checkraise)

Look who is rambling now. In short, my vote is to wait.

-Diplomat

[Ginogino]

BB:
I'd like to raise one more issue, which is the impact on the way you play the hand generally on similar hands in the future. You describe your opponents as poor players, so maybe they won't notice that you checkraise the flop every time a pair of mediocre or wheel cards hits the board.

Against better players I'd guess you'd want to vary the play. In the hand as dealt, I think I'd perhaps wait a round to checkraise just because of the disjointedness of the board. This depends on the likelihood of someone betting the turn with nothing or with a newfound two pair.

Question: if you smoothcalled the flop and the turn was checked around, would you lead-bet the river?

Gino

[J.A.Sucker]

I like the way you played the hand here. I would check the flop every time, BTW.

Here, you really like to bet the turn, because a lot of people will raise a J on the turn, especially if they have a good kicker. Now you can 3 bet their ass, and bet the river. If they have no pair, then they'll fold. You already got a lot of action. Ni han.

Betting the flop and checkraising the turn will fail more often since it will be checked through sometimes.

[LJH]

BAD,IF YOU AR SO SURE WHY ARE YOU UNSURE, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. WITH THREE DEUCW YOU CANNOT SLOW PLAY! LJH

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting the flop and checkraising the turn will fail more often since it will be checked through sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right here. This. This is it. This is the one and only part of poker at which I am an expert.

With the properly executed check, you can always get them to bet the turn.