A Terrible Fold?!

Michael Davis · #1 07-25-2003, 12:15 AM

A terrible fold!

So anyways, my cousin is playing on Party Poker (I won't reveal his age, because I'm pretty sure I will be attacked) and plays the following hand at 0.50-1.00 stakes. I was helping him play somewhat, but was not always paying attention, so none of this is set in stone.

It is a family pot to him in the BB, he has KK. He raises, and when it gets back around to him it is capped with everyone still in.

The flop comes J32 rainbow. The small blind comes out betting. He just calls (argh!). And the turn confront-them-with-two-bets raise probably won't work here; they'll call anyways. Well, when it gets back around, it is three bets to call, and my cousin caps the betting (argh again, somebody would have capped it behind).

The turn is a six (6J32 board) and puts two clubs on board. SB checks to my cousin who bets, a bunch of people call, and then it is raised by the middle position preflop limp reraiser. Some more people call, my cousin three bets and everyone calls.

The river is another J (J6J32 board), pairing the board but not putting the flush out there. The SB bets out and my cousin folds with three players to act behind him. The pot was somewhere in the neighborhood of 39 big bets.

What do you think? This is, after all, Party Poker...

asdf1234 · #2 07-25-2003, 01:57 AM

I would say it's probably worth calling a single bet because the pot is just huge and if you've got any chance (which you do) to win, you need to call. Calling with a loser is only a small mistake, but folding a winner is a gigantic mistake, especially with a pot this big.

If there's substantial action, you can probably fold, but like you said, this is Party....

BTW, I doubt if many on here will care if your 15 year old nephew is playing microlimits on party. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Michael Davis · #3 07-25-2003, 02:11 AM

Actually, my 14-year old cousin is terrorizing microlimits on Party. He has won a ridiculous amount of money the past two days. This is good, since I am staking him for 50%.

-Mike

asdf1234 · #4 07-25-2003, 02:27 AM

Yeah, the PP microlimits are pretty much free cash if you play reasonably well. Probably the worst case scenario is if the cards go frozen and you catch a few bad beats, you might only break even. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

The only thing is that the higher limits there aren't too much different...

elysium · #5 07-25-2003, 02:28 AM

hi mike
it's a pretty awful fold. i like the pre-flop raise but he really plays poorly by only calling the SB flop bet. then, on the turn, when he should go for a check-raise, he bets. but ok. only now that he's built a huge pot, he folds his over-pair up. just awful.

thwang99 · #6 07-25-2003, 05:25 AM

Mike,

You know the answer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It's an aweful fold. Reminds me of a fold my friend made. Oh, and nothing wrong with the age of your cousin. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Let me preface this. 5/10 6-max on Party. A maniac that raises/bluffs a lot preflop and on the flop. Will bet till the river.

For example one time I got a free play in BB with J3o, flop JT high. I checkraise him on the flop. Turn comes a SWEET 3. I check-raise him AGAIN! River comes a T. I check, he bets, I call. He shows 58o, for NOTHING.

He's known to raise K8o PF and bet till the end on an A high flop. Anyways, another hand, my friend has AKo, and it's bet/raised/capped, etc. against maniac.

Flop comes babies, anyways, to make a long story short, at the river, flop is QJxxx or something. Betting on later streets is not capped, just bet/call/call, etc... Maniac bets river, everyone folds, (pot is $230 or so now) and my friend FOLDS with his AKo high! A definite call against this guy in this situation. I held KTo and folded cause there were people to act after me, else if I was the one to complete the action on the river with NO ONE ELSE IN like my friend was, I'd definitely call!
- Tony

Michael Davis · #7 07-25-2003, 07:11 AM

Yes, I agree with you and told him that his fold was bad. Tonight, he told me that he had five opponents on the river and he couldn't see all of them sticking around on a J32 flop without a jack. I asked him if he thought he had a one in forty chance of winning the hand, to which he replied, "No, I had no chance to win." And, to be quite frank, I sort of agree with him, except when you see the junk that was turned over, he must have had some chance of winning this hand.

Ah well...

Of course, the results bear him out, but he's pretty lucky. The guy who bet from the SB turned over 52o on the river for Js and 2s. (Yes, he was in it to win it for 7 big bets.) The other guy, who was doing all the raising, had J9s and suddenly decided to just call the river.

Now, any suggestions on convincing a 14-year-old who has been winning crazy cash the past couple of days that he messed up a hand?

-Mike

Kurn, son of Mogh · #8 07-25-2003, 08:37 AM

(I won't reveal his age, because I'm pretty sure I will be attacked)

This is a very strange statement for 2 reasons.

1) If you don't make it, nobody assumes he's underage
2) In two succeeding posts you state his age.

So, are you trying to provoke an attack? Just curious.

bernie · #9 07-25-2003, 10:27 AM

seems he read the hand well enough to fold on the river. maybe he was more observant as to what theyd be betting with on certain streets.

i dont think this was a terrible fold. at least commend him for a good read. that's a step above just auto calling/ingoring any read based only on pot size.

hindsight: especially since he was 3rd best.

which is worse, folding, or chastising him for a great read and following it through by playing it accordingly?

good fold.

btw...not saying calling here is wrong. especially if youre unsure. not sure id have layed it down. but i wasnt there and dont have the feel of the table that the kid did.

sounds like he may have alot of potential.

b

Ginogino · #10 07-25-2003, 10:41 AM

Michael:
I am with the comments so far about the need to call the river. One thing, though, about your "14-year-old" comment. Someday there will be a serious effort made to ban internet casinos. One of the charges that will be made is that there are underage gamblers. Your message may be used as evidence. I exaggerate, of course, but I think that if you like on-line poker, you don't write stuff that puts on-line poker in jeopardy.

I just reread the first paragraph, and I apologize for the heavy tone. I don't mean to be preaching -- not even a little bit.

Gino