Am I a donk?

[dfoote]

I did this yesterday against two players. They turned over A high and K high flushes. I hope I'm not a donk, but I sure felt like one when they flipped.

[Ixnert]

You'd hit your boat about 36% of the time, and you know it's good when you hit it, so against two known flushes, you're coming out marginally ahead here...

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
You'd hit your boat about 36% of the time, and you know it's good when you hit it, so against two known flushes, you're coming out marginally ahead here...

[/ QUOTE ]

He is being offered 2.2:1 by the pot and the odds against him making a boat or quads is 3.6:1. So he actually doesn't have the odds to call this if he knows he is up against a flush. Of course if there were another flush pushing, it would very likely change the odds in his favor.

[Ixnert]

3.6:1 is the odds to hit on the river only, not the turn and river.

You've got seven cards between the board and the two flush hands that you know don't pair each other, plus your own two.

Say it's AQs, KJs and you with 66, board 632 in the flush suit. You've got 7 outs on the turn (the case 6, 3 3s, 3 2s) out of 43 cards, so 16.2% to make the boat/quads on the turn. If you don't, you have 10 outs to make it on the river (same outs as above, plus pairing the turn card), out of 42 cards, so 23.8% to hit on the river.

To hit on the turn or river, 1 - ((1 - .162) * (1 - .238)) = ~ 37%, or slightly better than 2:1.

[wiggs73]

Yeah, but the all-in was after the turn:

[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
sepher28 checks.
dantmann is all-In [310]
sepher28 calls [310].

[/ QUOTE ]

So when the all-in call was made, he was 3.6:1 to beat a known flush.

[Ixnert]

I was responding to dfoote above, and assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that that was on the flop. You are of course correct about the OP.

[Moonsugar]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but the all-in was after the turn:

[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
sepher28 checks.
dantmann is all-In [310]
sepher28 calls [310].

[/ QUOTE ]

So when the all-in call was made, he was 3.6:1 to beat a known flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Known flush?

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I read the hand this way: The villain does not think you have the flush, but thinks you are bluffing at the pot. He likes his hand, maybe Ax w/ A being a spade. He does not suspect that you have a set. I believe the correct play is for you to reraise his raise maybe another $80. If he reraises you you're beaten, and if he calls you're probably also beaten. so check turn/river and he might also check unless he has the nut flush

[nokona13]

I was just thinking that against a decent opponent the flop min-raise could easily be a bare A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Like adanthar said, if you're going to just push a blank turn, I think the 3-bet push on the flop is best. If this guy's a straight-ahead style donk, though, I might even think about folding, as the min-raise from a donk often tells me he's playing a monster and is trying to get my chips in...

But then, I guess donk's make so many stupid plays that folding trips, even on a mono-tone flop, is probably stupid. And folding to a good player capable of raising that flop to try to buy a free river makes pushing against that opponent right, so I guess I'm for pushing the flop against the big majority of opponenets.

[wiggs73]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but the all-in was after the turn:

[ QUOTE ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
sepher28 checks.
dantmann is all-In [310]
sepher28 calls [310].

[/ QUOTE ]

So when the all-in call was made, he was 3.6:1 to beat a known flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Known flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and not that we know we're up against a flush... but me and the other poster just got into a mini-discussion about pot odds in various situations. We were just saying that there are times that even if your opp's turned over flushes and you had a set, you'd be technically correct to call.