nominee, worst play by a set - Page 2

jumpthru · #11 03-31-2005, 01:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$2/$5 NL, villain and I both have around $500. Villain is solid but overaggressive, given to big bets, and also trapping->allin overbets with big hands.

So. I'm tilting a little and limp 22 UTG+1. Villain makes it $25 from the CO, I call, headsup.

Flop:

A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, he checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet $35, he calls. Hopefully he is "trapping" with AK.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check, he goes all-in, I turbomuck, he flashes KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please explain why this is such an obvoius turbomuck? Its an obvious turbocall for me, but I obviously suck.

Kaz The Original · #12 03-31-2005, 01:50 AM

"Villain is solid but overaggressive, given to big bets, and also trapping->allin overbets with big hands. "

Always the read. Plus the only hand you were beating that is trapping is AK, which now beats you.

jpg7n16 · #13 03-31-2005, 05:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please explain why this is such an obvoius turbomuck? Its an obvious turbocall for me, but I obviously suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP knew the player to be on either AA, KK, or AK. When the A came on the river, any of those hands would give the "villian" the higher boat. Aces full of kings or kings full of aces... either beats 2's full of aces.

When you know that you are beat, turbomuck is a great option.

Lucky · #14 03-31-2005, 05:45 AM

I dont mind the limp in these games, but I also almost never will call a full raise, heads up out of position with low pair.

That being said, you get the flop you want, BET INTO HIM.
Almost everytime, you believe you're ahead here, BET.

With this particular player, he'll have slick, get excited that he doesnt have to hurt his brain figuring how to most trickily trap, and he will be ready to get it on.

The mistake was yours in the this hand, and it saved you a buyin.

freemoney · #15 03-31-2005, 06:14 AM

yeah when i first read the post i thought it was in reference to his own play, i dont get his line at all

creedofhubris · #16 03-31-2005, 07:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah when i first read the post i thought it was in reference to his own play, i dont get his line at all

[/ QUOTE ]

The gentleman likes to bet large, my line was to let him do so. I figured even if I checked I would end up allin with no trouble if he had AK/AQ. Stacks are not superdeep.

It's also possible he's got something that does not connect with the board, so leading out would fold him or make less than letting him fire.

kagame · #17 03-31-2005, 09:02 AM

by bet large, do you mean reraise large?

or do you mean reraise a check raise large?

that would be the strongest play in poker if im not mistaken, and you want to make him be that strong when you have bottom set...ok

or were you planning on check calling till AK got there?

rwanger · #18 03-31-2005, 09:56 AM

If you believe that he will bet big with a hand that did not hit this flop, then you should check it to him. If you believe he hit top pair, or top two...you should bet into him, because he is an aggressive player, and will raise you, committing himself to the pot. Specifically, if you put him on AK, HE IS NOT LAYING IT DOWN no matter what you do.

Let's say you knew he had TT, JJ, QQ? How do you get the most out of it? What about leading the flop, he very well may call, thinking that you're testing him becuase you wouldn't lead out with bottom set. Then you check to him on the turn, giving him a chance to bet because he thinks you were trying to take the pot on the flop.

If he has JJ QQ, he'll bet the flop if you check, then check behind on the turn because there are no realistic draws on the board.

LetYouDown · #19 03-31-2005, 12:03 PM

Sounds like your read/flop is essentially the same as mine in the hand/thread below (lower limit, but same concept). I put villain on AK and was able to get away fairly cheaply.

Flopped Boat

Some interesting analysis mixed in there, along with criticisms [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

creedofhubris · #20 03-31-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
by bet large, do you mean reraise large?

or do you mean reraise a check raise large?

that would be the strongest play in poker if im not mistaken, and you want to make him be that strong when you have bottom set...ok

or were you planning on check calling till AK got there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my plan:

1. Check/call the flop, because even if he does not have Ax beat, he is almost guaranteed to stab at the pot.

2. Lead out on the turn for the pot.

Plan was messed up by his flop check, now I'm stumped, so I lead out moderately. In the past this sort of play has elicited a big raise from him which is what I was hoping for.

My line is opponent-specific. He is a thinking opponent; he may well fold TT if I lead the flop. If I thought he were blindly aggressive leading the flop would be superior, I agree.