"Real reads" vs "stats"

[Askilus]

Hi,

When you guys post a hand with reads on players looking like this: "Villian was a LAG", or: "UTG was a rock" how often do you base this on your "own manual" reads and how often is it just figures from your PT database read by you through GT+ or Playview? How important are "real, manual" reads vs. stats from your database? What kinds of things do you need to add yourself that PT can't do for you?

A related but somewhat different question on the subject: Is it worth the trouble to datamine $.5/$1 on PP? Or are there to many players to get a sufficient number of hands on a sufficient number of players or is it doable?

The reason that I ask these kinds of questions is that I recently reinstalled PT and has started to explore the wonders of datamining + Playview [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks,

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

When you guys post a hand with reads on players looking like this: "Villian was a LAG", or: "UTG was a rock" how often do you base this on your "own manual" reads and how often is it just figures from your PT database read by you through GT+ or Playview? How important are "real, manual" reads vs. stats from your database? What kinds of things do you need to add yourself that PT can't do for you?

A related but somewhat different question on the subject: Is it worth the trouble to datamine $.5/$1 on PP? Or are there to many players to get a sufficient number of hands on a sufficient number of players or is it doable?

The reason that I ask these kinds of questions is that I recently reinstalled PT and has started to explore the wonders of datamining + Playview [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks,

[/ QUOTE ]
I would think it IS worth it to datamine at .50/1.

Not necessarily to get reads on as many people as possible, but to find a fish or 6, and try to play with him as often as possible.

Also, I find that jotting down notes about tendencies(raises with OESD, 4 flush) is really all I need to go along with my PT stats.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
How important are "real, manual" reads vs. stats from your database?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Real" reads are good when you first play an opponent. It takes a while for some of those stats to settle down and become useful. But for players you've seen for many hands (I think 75-100 is a good number), the stats should start becoming a reasonable estimate for their play. But if I have a read and the stats tell me something a little different, I trust the read.

[SlantNGo]

I tend to take notes on:

- Postflop play. I use the Aggression Factor and Went to Showdown % stats to get a good feel about how my opponent plays postflop (I think Won $ at Showdown % could be good here too), but I'll jot notes of things such as whether or not he raises draws, whether he'll bluff-bet the river after he misses a draw, if he likes to slowplay trips, etc.

- Plays that are out of line with stats. If my stats show that a guy is a 4% PFR, and I see him raise 33 UTG, I will take note of it.

[davelin]

From another post of mine, things I take notes on -

a) What are opponents limping in with pre-flop (any broadway, any ace, any two-suited, any connectors?)

b) What are they raising and not raising with pre-flop (are they not always raising JJ or QQ or AQo, etc.)

c) What are they cold-calling with?

d) What will they bet, both when there has and hasn't been a pre-flop raise (top pair, any part, draw?)

e) What/when do they wake up on (paired board, flush draw completed, overcard, slowplayed set, etc.)

f) What will they call down on the river with (any part, busted draw, etc.)

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
When you guys post a hand with reads on players looking like this: "Villian was a LAG", or: "UTG was a rock" how often do you base this on your "own manual" reads and how often is it just figures from your PT database read by you through GT+ or Playview? How important are "real, manual" reads vs. stats from your database? What kinds of things do you need to add yourself that PT can't do for you?

[/ QUOTE ]
I only rarely post stats from PT along with my hands. I think the best think to do is judge how I played the hand from what I knew at that point. If I didn't looked in PT for his stats while playing the hand (which I never do) they were not in consideration. On the other hand I should start focusing more on getting good reads/looking in PT while playing, but I find it hard while multitableing. Sure, I could also look in PT after I played the hand and get the key to how I should have played it, but that won't help me very much when I get in the same situation again without reads.

[3rdEye]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

When you guys post a hand with reads on players looking like this: "Villian was a LAG", or: "UTG was a rock" how often do you base this on your "own manual" reads and how often is it just figures from your PT database read by you through GT+ or Playview? How important are "real, manual" reads vs. stats from your database? What kinds of things do you need to add yourself that PT can't do for you?

A related but somewhat different question on the subject: Is it worth the trouble to datamine $.5/$1 on PP? Or are there to many players to get a sufficient number of hands on a sufficient number of players or is it doable?

The reason that I ask these kinds of questions is that I recently reinstalled PT and has started to explore the wonders of datamining + Playview [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks,

[/ QUOTE ]

What are GT+ and Playview?

[zephed56]

Let me answer that for about 80 percent of all opponents I've faced...
[ QUOTE ]
From another post of mine, things I take notes on -

a) What are opponents limping in with pre-flop (any broadway, any ace, any two-suited, any connectors?)
any two
b) What are they raising and not raising with pre-flop (are they not always raising JJ or QQ or AQo, etc.)
any two
c) What are they cold-calling with?
any two
d) What will they bet, both when there has and hasn't been a pre-flop raise (top pair, any part, draw?)
any two
e) What/when do they wake up on (paired board, flush draw completed, overcard, slowplayed set, etc.)
any two
f) What will they call down on the river with (any part, busted draw, etc.)
any two

[/ QUOTE ]

I get what ya mean, I may actually use this. Thanks.

[Askilus]

GT+: http://www.pokerdominion.com/viewtopic.php?t=2
Playerview: http://www.playerview.net/

Both ones are programs used to print out your PT stats upon the PP (or PP-skin) table (I'm not sure about the other poker networks, I think I read that Playerview supported UB?). For examples of how Playerview can be used look here: http://www.playerview.net/layouts.html. The beauty of Playerview is that it's possible to customize to look of the stats in these "layouts". Import one of the layouts on their web and do your own adjustments to it.

Combined with datamining it's also possible to update these stats on the fly. This has the great advantage that it also helps you in your table selection.

My $0.02, hope it helped [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Askilus]

Thanks, great input!
I tried to search first but didn't find any thread discussing both datamining and reads.