AJo vs. 4 limpers

[David BB]

A couple of interesting things to discuss in this hand:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

[TheHip41]

Raise pre flop. You let the BB in for free, and it looks as if he beat you. If you fail do raise pre flop, raise the flop.

Derek

[joker122]

You need to raise the flop and trap the 5 players for an extra bet with what is very likely the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]
couple of interesting things to discuss in this hand:

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh.. can you be specific?

[bisonbison]

raise preflop. raise the flop. river's fine.

[Barry]

I would raise PF, but there are arguments for just calling after multiple limpers.

You should raise the flop and collect multiple bets from the folks on the flop while they still have cards in front of them and not when they muck on the turn.

[David BB]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh.. can you be specific?

[/ QUOTE ]

Specificly the pre-flop limp and the flop call/turn raise [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Lmn55d]

I could be wrong...but unlike AQo and AKo, doesn't AJo lose equity (or I guess more specifically its "equity edge") as the number of limpers increases? Not saying you shouldn't raise here, I just think it isn't that clear of a raise after a good number of limpers. Same with KQo.

[TheHip41]

If you don't raise, you give the BB a free shot at you. That alone is worth the raise. Also, you might win the button. If you don't raise this, you should figure out the good reasons for doing so. It's not an automatic raise like KK, but I like raising it. Would you raise AJs? or AQos in this spot?

Derek

[Lmn55d]

i think your reasons are good ones, i would probably raise too, I just dont think it is as easy as some people have described. AJs and AQs/AQo I would raise easily because these hands gain value as the number of limpers increase and I have a pot equity edge...I just dont think the edge is that great for AJo after 5+ limpers. There probbly is a decent edge, but after this many limpers I think you could make up that edge by the +EV you gain postflop by not raising (increased ability to checkraise, etc.). For AJs, AQo, and AJo (vs. fewer limpers) I dont think you could make that up so I raise.

[David BB]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you raise AJs? or AQos in this spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course.

The thing with AJo is that my pre-flop edge is relatively small so it may be worth giving up that small edge for a greater edge post-flop. Ed Miller mentions this briefly in SSH and I also remember Rolf Slotboom talking about it in a cardplayer article a few months ago. But I am unsure exactly in what situations to apply it. Perhaps Ed Miller could elaborate on this? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

About my post-flop play: Obviously raising the flop doesn't protect my somewhat vulnerable hand so I decided to wait till the turn unless a scare card comes. But perhaps this play is better with hands that have relatively few outs such as JJ/TT? Either way I think the difference in EV is marginal.