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  #31  
Old 12-29-2005, 12:39 PM
Warik Warik is offline
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Posts: 436
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

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I just recieved my first ticket this evening, so I figured I might as well try and do some research online to look at my options and possible chances of getting the ticket erased.

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I will give my non-legal-experience & non-law-enforcement-experience opinion on the matter, which may or may not be correct, but will sure sound pretty smart.

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I see the cop there

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Would it have been IMPOSSIBLE for you to NOT know the cop was there? This is important. Read ahead.

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I flash my brights twice at the car.

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You probably know this already, but don't do this again - at least not at night. During the day time if there is only one cop, he has no way of knowing that you warned someone. At night it's blatantly obvious.

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-yes i was guilty i flashed the driver to and only to warn him of the cop,
- is this wrong or illegal?

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Wrong? No... only if the other driver was doing something reckless like driving 80mph in a residential area... or if he was some punk kid driving his rice rocket.

Illegal? Probably. A case could be made for obstruction of justice; however, if the cop didn't know for a FACT that the other driver was breaking the law, then he can't say you were "obstructing justice" since no crime had yet been committed.

Think of it this way.

Friend: "I'm going to kill my wife for cheating on me."
You: "Hey, don't kill your wife. Her lover is a cop and he's hiding in the closet."
Friend: "Ok. Good idea."
Cop: "You have obstructed justice by warning your friend! You are going to jail!"

It's crap. Now if the cop had confirmed that this person was speeding or ran a stop sign and you helped him evade the police, that's a different story.

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-can he prove there was no deer?

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No he can't, which is why I mentioned before that it is important for you to know if it were possible for you not to have seen the cop.

If the cop can say that it was IMPOSSIBLE for you not to have seen him, then he can say that it was more likely that you were warning the other driver. If you can get the judge or jury (I believe it is your right to get a trial by jury. Whether that is to your advantage or not is unknown to me) to believe that you DIDN'T know the cop was there, then the cop CANNOT claim you were trying to warn the driver.

"Warn him of what? I didn't even know the cop was there!"

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- can he prove if i tell the judge i was checking my lights because i had a prob with my idiot lights?

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Don't tell the judge that. You already told the cop your lights were fine.

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the road is wide and no reason to be 25mph

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Irrelevant. =)

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i was flashing my lights not at the dirver but becuase there was a deer in the farm next to the road

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If you are going to fight the ticket, then this sounds to me like your best defense. Just make sure that there is a real possibility that there could be a deer to warn someone about.

Summary:
- Use warning of deer defense. Argue that you did not know cop was there, and therefore could not have been warning anybody about him.
- Find out if requesting trial by jury would be to your advantage. If I were on your jury and you looked respectable, I would vote not guilty even if you admitted to doing it.

Any lawyers out there? Is my advice sound?

Should I become a lawyer? =)
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:08 PM
Alobar Alobar is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 795
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

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That sucks. I almost got pulled over this afternoon going like 25 mph over the limit on a highway. But i saw him just in time and slammed on my brakes (which was definately more dangerous than me going the higher speed). He actually shook his head at me (he was on a motorcycle) as I went by him, but he couldn't do anything cuz the radar gun showed me below the speed limit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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trust me, it had nothing to do with what his radar gun said, his radar had you speeding, he simply didnt pull you over because he either had something better to do, or because he figured he scared you enough that youll drive under for a while, and hed rather pull someone over who doesnt even bother to slow down when they see him.
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

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Just because you have had a ticket or even if you are a lawyer, advice about how to handle a ticket is going to be jurisdiction-specific.

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Couldn't agree more, I've gotten plenty of tickets in NY and know how to handle those but I think NJ has some unique laws regarding traffic violations. My rule of thumb, <u>always</u> fight a traffic ticket, especially your first. Odds are good that it will get reduced and cost you less and/or not put points on your license. They are banking on you not going through the trouble of fighting it (I even told a cop that once while he was giving me a ticket since I was about 5 hours away from home and I figured he knew there would be little chance I would fight it, he didn't like that attitude, but I still fought it and got it way reduced...score).

Plus, this looks like it was something that annoyed the cop so he pulled you over to make a point. Maybe you were wrong, but then again, so it jay-walking. This seems to be a minor infraction, and the cop made a point of it so you should make a point to bog-down the legal system a little more and go through the motions. Enjoy, and good luck!
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:36 PM
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Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

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No worries. Goto court. use same story burden of proff on the cop

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That's what I would be thinking. Just go to court, say, "I didn't do that". Let the cop give proof that you did. Is there some kind of decree that says a cop's word is better than yours?

EDIT: I think it's important here to make sure you say you didn't even flash your headlights. Don't say, I flashed them because...(other excuse). Just say you didn't flash them. Same as when you're speeding and get pulled over, never ever admit to doing anything over the speed limit.

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More and more police departments are using video and audio these days. My brother is cop, and he is miked, so the entire conversation is on tape. If he acknowledged to the cop that he flashed his lights to warn of a deer (and it's on tape), your idea won't work at all.
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

I didn't read your whole post, but I'm pretty sure they do not go to trial over a moving violation that does not involve any injury. It would be pretty silly to even try, he's not in any danger of losing his license or facing civil damages of any sort.

Also, saying you did not know the cop was there would probably go over poorly. How did you see a deer in the woods but not see a cop car parked near a stop sign? I get your point, but probably would go a different route.
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2005, 01:57 PM
tonypaladino tonypaladino is offline
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Posts: 498
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

Why is everyone keep talking about obstruction of justice? The ticket was for improper use of headlights.
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

There's a precedent for this very situation. I have no idea if it will apply to your location, but an appeals court has ruled that you are allowed to communicate with other drivers for this purpose. I didn't search very hard, but here's a start:
http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...41877517.shtml
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:16 PM
Alobar Alobar is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 795
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

alos, are you prepared to lie under oath?
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:18 PM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 412
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

While this was a good find, it's not relevant. The OP was cited for improper use of headlights, not warning others of police presence. Plus, it's a different jurisdiction.
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2005, 02:25 PM
Lloyd Lloyd is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 412
Default Re: traffic ticket, need advice, improper use of headlights

[ QUOTE ]
Just go to court, say, "I didn't do that". Let the cop give proof that you did. Is there some kind of decree that says a cop's word is better than yours?

EDIT: I think it's important here to make sure you say you didn't even flash your headlights. Don't say, I flashed them because...(other excuse). Just say you didn't flash them. Same as when you're speeding and get pulled over, never ever admit to doing anything over the speed limit.

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A judge will take the word of a cop over the defendant any day of the week. Defendants rarely admit their guilt. All the cop needs to do is say what he saw and that's enough proof. And the last thing you want to do is lie about what you told the cop. As soon as you admit what you did to him it will (or at least should) be recorded in his notes that will come out at trial. He'll say something like "When I asked the defendant why he flashed his high beams you said 'I thought I saw a deer'". The only point that can be made is that the very brief use of the headlights because of the possible deer in the road posed less of a risk then any possibility that they obstructed the other driver's view. So in the "interest of justice" the violation should be dismissed.
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