how far out of line was I...online 10/20?

lil feller · #1 12-24-2004, 01:05 AM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed here, probably on every street...fire away

W. Deranged · #2 12-24-2004, 01:46 AM

I think the pre-flop raise is suspect for obvious reasons, so I won't really get into that. (I'll assume you were having fun...)

I think the post-flop play is interesting. I'm actually going to say that your play is really not that bad here after the flop. You're pretty committed to betting out the flop after the raise. The raise by CO is interesting. When CO raises after cold-calling in a pretty small pot pre-flop, I would read him pretty strongly for a mid-pair here, meaning you can safely give yourself 7 outs. So you need to take off a turn.

The turn check-raise is the really strange part of this hand. I strongly doubt that CO has a K in his hand, and he may well put you on AK or the like, so you might get some fold equity from a turn check-raise. As it stands, if you give yourself all 7 outs and assume that you will get one bet from CO on the river, your implied odds are 5.75 to 1 on the turn, very slightly better than the 39 to 7 the decks giving you, so I think a call on the turn is probably in order. (The fact that some of your outs might be dead is offset by the potential for getting more than 1 bet on the river and the chance that your opponent is getting even more out of hand than you are). Since a call is in order, you might try to gain more equity by showing some strength, and the check-raise certainly does that.

My preferred play, though, would be just to lead the turn. When the K hits, a hand like 77 or 88 probably won't raise the turn, so you get the same price as a check-call (which is slightly +EV), and you get the added benefit of fold equity. You're opponent may be more likely to fold if you check-raise the turn, but you also cut down your odds so much that I don't think you make up the added investment with extra fold equity.

jimswarthow · #3 12-24-2004, 01:51 AM

Are u really looing for an answer here? You raised with a marginal hand OK... I'll give yiou a pass on that. Called a raise with nothing ... aghh forget it waste of time. I love players like you in my game. Well at least you know this was horrendous.

lil feller · #4 12-24-2004, 02:19 AM

thats got to be one of the most worthless posts I've ever had the displeasure of reading. thanks for the great input...

mmcd · #5 12-24-2004, 02:37 AM

Assuming the open limper was a weak player (usually a safe assumption with MP open limpers), the CO and button are reasonably tight in raised pots preflop, and the CO is capable of making a laydown postflop, VNH.

Yeknom58 · #6 12-24-2004, 02:37 AM

How loose are the blinds/CO/Button. Unless I was fairly sure I was going to buy the button and fold at least one of the blinds I would probably limp or fold.

I'm fairly sure you've got 7 outs so I'm seeing a turn.

On the turn, unless I had a pretty good read I think I would probably bet or check fold. Not a big fan of the CR. If you think an opponent would fold to a CR, I think he would fold to a bet. So on the turn I like a bet more than a CR and if I checked I think I would probably just fold if he bet.

lil feller · #7 12-24-2004, 02:43 AM

Neverminding the strategy points, but assuming I still have 7 outs from turn to river, why c/f? I'm getting the odds to call (the Poker Tracker Pot odds window says so [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

Have you been to Tulalip lately, i haven't had time to get out in like a month...

lil feller · #8 12-24-2004, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming the open limper was a weak player (usually a safe assumption with MP open limpers), the CO and button are reasonably tight in raised pots preflop, and the CO is capable of making a laydown postflop, VNH.

[/ QUOTE ]

My read on the players after having been in the game for about 3 hours was that the blinds were tight, the c/o was weak and predictable, and the MP would open raise with anything better than A2...I raised PF fully confident I had the best hand of the people currently committed to seeing the flop...and then got called behind me.

Yeknom58 · #9 12-24-2004, 02:52 AM

Ha, Ha I didn't really notice that the pot was just the right size. Now I'm thinking I just bet the turn.

As for playing live. I probaby play live like once a month. So like no.

RainFall · #10 12-24-2004, 04:30 AM

Do you play at tulalip often? maybe i know you? i used to play there and some tourneys.. not in several months though