5/10NL bottom set/scary river/facing aggression

tdarko · #1 10-04-2005, 03:49 AM

MP(1540) raises to 30, CO(790) calls, i call on the Button with 6's(1590).

flop (6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])pot~105
MP bets $50, CO folds, Hero raises $285, MP calls.

turn (6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])pot~440
MP checks, Hero bets $500, MP calls.

river (6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])pot~1440
MP goes all-in for $675...???

that's a pretty rough card for me but is this pot too big to fold.

should i have just pushed the turn and saved myself this trouble here on the river?

i think i got myself in a little bit of a bind here by just overbetting the pot and not pushing the pot or was i behind all along?

EDIT: i usually play 2/4--3/6 but will occasionally take some time at this game.

Big_Jim · #2 10-04-2005, 04:45 PM

If villian hit his draw.... he is certainly paying out the ass for it.

The problem with pushing the turn is that it's pretty tough for Villian to make a mistake... it would be $1175 into a $440 pot. Unless you have some pretty good Shania working for you, I can't see a push being right.

On the river, Villian pushes, and he expects you to call (pretty tough to fold anything that got this far for ~3:1).... which probably means he can beat bottom set. My guess is that you were behind all along.

Not sure if I can find a fold here for those odds.... but I probably should.

Some reads would make this a lot easier.

captZEEbo1 · #3 10-04-2005, 04:48 PM

I can't think of anything you beat that plays it like this.

tdarko · #4 10-05-2005, 12:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of anything you beat that plays it like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
you and big jim are right.

is this an easy fold on the river?

bigt2k4 · #5 10-05-2005, 12:58 AM

only thing he has is 1010 AA or AX of diamonds, he may see scare card and try to bluff u, r u known for folding on scare cards to large bets??? does he have a read on you, is he a fish, was he thinking he A10 was good, he sure doesnt have str8

captZEEbo1 · #6 10-05-2005, 01:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
only thing he has is 1010 AA or AX of diamonds, he may see scare card and try to bluff u, r u known for folding on scare cards to large bets??? does he have a read on you, is he a fish, was he thinking he A10 was good, he sure doesnt have str8

[/ QUOTE ]
One hand you left out is QJ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], though it'd be an unprofitable play, it wouldn't be absurd to see this hand. I think most made hands (TT AA AT) would just c/r turn allin given how much you put into the pot already. I think only real hand he has is Axs or QJs

[ QUOTE ]
is this an easy fold on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]It's not an easy fold, since it's a set, but I think it's a fold.

flawless_victory · #7 10-05-2005, 01:13 AM

this would be a helluva fold...
if hes sane, he almost has to have Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].. what other hand can flat call the turn?

tdarko · #8 10-05-2005, 01:19 AM

this is why this was such a confusing spot for me. every hand i put him on i would have just pushed the turn if i were the villain, 10-10/8-8/A-A/Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

tdarko · #9 10-05-2005, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not an easy fold, since it's a set, but I think it's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
i folded.

i lump his calling the turn together with pushing the turn, if he called the turn he either has a big hand or is on a draw and if he was on a draw then he hit it one way or the other. of course if he called the 500 on the turn with QJ then he played his hand badly, but thats not really the point. both result in me more than likely being behind.

...but then after thinking about it this creeped into my head, maybe he played a scared KK b/c of the tricky board and all the possibilities and the heat that i was applying and decided to make a move when the scare card came. i think he may have had KK and i made a bad fold. to me i can't think of anything else he would just call the turn with.

EDIT: its late and i cant type.

captZEEbo1 · #10 10-05-2005, 03:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not an easy fold, since it's a set, but I think it's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
i folded.

i lump his calling the turn together with pushing the turn, if he called the turn he either has a big hand or is on a draw and if he was on a draw then he hit it one way or the other. of course if he called the 500 on the turn with QJ then he played his hand badly, but thats not really the point. both result in me more than likely being behind.

...but then after thinking about it this creeped into my head, maybe he played a scared KK b/c of the tricky board and all the possibilities and the heat that i was applying and decided to make a move when the scare card came. i think he may have had KK and i made a bad fold. to me i can't think of anything else he would just call the turn with.

EDIT: its late and i cant type.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered KK too, but I think villain would raise or fold that hand too, leaning more towards fold since Axs just got there for you.