Pokerroom.com starting hand EV stats

[StoneAge]

I thought this might have been discussed before but I missed it. Thanks for posting again Bozeman.

[StoneAge]

[StoneAge]

These stats do seem to show that the value of these unsiuited high cards is higher that I thought from my interpretations of S&M and that they do hold their own in loose games- AJ seems just as profitable in a 1-2 10 person table as a 10-20 10 person table. I do need to be a little cautious with this though because I 'want' this to be true. But then it seems that if an 'average' player can play AJ profitably utg 10 handed that an 'above average' player should be able to.

[Clarkmeister]

Glenn,

While your point certainly has merit, I think the important thing to note about the medium suited connectors is just how position sensitive they are. Holdem is still a big card game and conditions need to be ideal to play non-pair little cards for profit. Clearly, as you stated, you don't want to be paying a premium to see the flop with these hands, nor can you stand to be more than 2 off the button.

OTOH, note how even marginal hands like K9s pretty much make money anywhere.

Holdem is a big card game.

[rigoletto]

Does anybody know if rake is taken into consideration in these tables? If not a lot of these marginal winners will turn into loosers!

[Clarkmeister]

It is my understanding that rake is taken into consideration. I did some analysis of these numbers about 8 months ago and I seem to remember that rake was clearly taken out.

[StoneAge]

First off thanks for participating in this thread as your input has been great.

A couple questions for you:

Did you give enough validity to this data to let it change the mix of hands you played and the positions you played them in?

Can a player making 1.5-2.25BB/hr (50 hands/hr)to turn a hand an average player has an EV of -0.03BB btf into a pofitable hand? -0.08? Or is this asking the wrong question?

[Clarkmeister]

I think its asking the wrong question. I think the key is understanding how these hands play, and where they make their money. Also understand that you need to be in a very good game. As a very basic example, A4s makes money in every position, but that doesn't mean you can cold call an UTG raise with it. A4s makes money in these looser online games UTG, but that doesn't mean it will make money in a reasonalby tight, tough middle limit table. If you want an estimate, I would suspect that a player as you describe would be able to add between .03-.05 per hand.

Just be careful what conclusions you draw.

As for me, the data more or less confirmed things that I had already modified in my game vs. the standard Hand Rankings. I already had played any suited ace and any pair in any position for a single bet. Did I add a few hands? Yes, I added K9s, KTs into my mix of hands UTG when in an appropriately loose game. I also started being much more picky about where I would pay hands like 78s.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Everyone,
I was looking over the cumulative EV's on the pokerroom.com site at this link.

https://www.pokerroom.com/evstats/to...hp?order=value

When I noticed that the count for AA was 212,549... and the count for 72 was 424,833...

What's wrong with this picture... Are people really playing 72 twice as often as AA?

Sincerely,
AA

[Clarkmeister]

There are 6 ways you can get dealt AA:

AcAs, AcAh, AcAd, AsAh, AsAd, AhAd

But 12 ways you can get dealt 72o

7c2s, 7c2h, 7c2d, 7s2c, 7s2h, 7s2d, 7h2c, 7h2d, 7hds, 7d2c, 7d2s, 7d2h.